Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[KizuyaKatogami]

Nah it's just healers. Tanks are fine. Great, even. They tend to give us what we want.

Is that why DRK players have had to ask for 6 years for a LD change and they’re only just now getting it.

[ThivraK]

you and people who think like you are exactly why this community is becoming more and more of a laughing stock outside our bubble. thank you.

[AziraSyuren]

Is that why DRK players have had to ask for 6 years for a LD change and they’re only just now getting it.

Paladins and Warriors always get what they want, though, and PLD as a job only ever gets more complex and interesting with time. DRK is an unfortunate outlier but tanks are otherwise only ever treated very well, ever since Stormblood. That's like saying they never pay attention to casters since Summoner is a mess.

[HyoMinPark]

Says the guy who believes this "everybody pickin on me" story. Whose boot exactly am I licking when I don't 100% believe this guys sob story of how every time he goes healer it's like virtual oppression?

Except Liam’s story is true. As someone who has played healers in this game for over six years, it is an incredibly thankless job. And you can be popping off damage while keeping everyone healed and not letting a single person die, but your coheal who is half AFK, uses HoTs or other pointless heals while everyone is at full HP, and dies repeatedly walks away with the credit for keeping people alive because they spammed their GCDs. I’ve had co-healers in the past that accuse me of never healing in EX or Savage because I focus oGCD priority first and not GCD heals. The irony is I’m outhealing them and outDPSing them. But I can’t say that since parsers are the devil.

I’ve done test runs with my friend where we do virtually no damage, GCD heal, and basically stand around waiting for damage—and we get more recognition than when we are playing more offensively. I’ve also done runs with them where they basically deal damage while I heal and raise, but they get comms and I don’t. And vise versa. Sometimes I get more comms on WHM because WHM has to GCD heal over a healer like SCH/SGE, or even AST.

You think it’s an exaggeration but it is very much the case in this game. People don’t recognize a good healer when they see one. Unless they’re also a healer main.

[Deceptus]

The point you're missing is that people do not recognize what a good healer looks like.

And yeah, that is very reflected in the game.

I've had tanks not realize what Essential Dignity does. I have MANY, MANY cohealers who don't recognize or play around the idea that I'm using Earthly Star even in Extremes and Savages.

Another example:

Paladins using Clemency to heal themselves when they dip below 60%, meanwhile a Recitation > Excogitation is just sitting there ready to pop off from a decently played Scholar.

[technole]

Paladins and Warriors always get what they want, though, and PLD as a job only ever gets more complex and interesting with time. DRK is an unfortunate outlier but tanks are otherwise only ever treated very well, ever since Stormblood. That's like saying they never pay attention to casters since Summoner is a mess.

Considering YoshiP's latest famitsu interview yesterday, that some 6.1 job nerfs are coming along with others getting enhancements, no one is safe. But I imagine Reaper and Warrior getting some trimmings, especially their heal potency.

As for DRK, I figure they'll lower Living Dead to something like 75% healed and that'd be enough. That would be fine to me, as its the lower level healers that suffer the most. The solution of "dump every stack you somehow have" for Sage and Scholar is old.

As for the ultimate subject, well he makes it sound it's loaded and have to do your jobs to fullest abilities, and 4-5 months for a casual group. Normal things heard last time.

[Liam_Harper]

Meanwhile, I’ve actually done test runs of stuff where I barely DPS as a healer, play the full Medica II uptime game, and get 4 or 5 commendations. Just a huge fml.

I've done a few of those too. I did a P2N recently where all I used was Medica II, Regen and Raise. Nothing else. 3 comms. By the end I was hoping someone would call me out.

you and people who think like you are exactly why this community is becoming more and more of a laughing stock outside our bubble. thank you.

It's ironic because he basically proves my point.

It's not like we even want praise or comms or whatever. Good healers just want to enjoy the game, have fun and be a useful part of the team. It's more that it gets frustrating when you do your best only to be labeled as an evil dps spammer and ignored by the creators of the game itself.

[Ixon]

It's sad, but "healer became too good, don't want them anymore" is reflected in the game too.

The better you become at the healer role, the worse you are treated. You'll get much less comms, you'll get told off for being a filthy dps healer, the devs will utterly ignore you and in the grand scheme of things the extra rdps you add won't be noticed. It's the least rewarding role to be good at, you're actually better off being a Sylphie who lives in ignorance, spam healing health bars to full when there's no danger and doing very little damage, because you'll be praised for it and the devs will pat you on the head as their favorite child.

^This, is at best, an over exaggeration of a legitimate issue within FFXIV. No one, in the history of forever, has ever said healers get less coms. In fact, people will legitimately queue healer for the sake of getting more coms because more often than not, they are the standard person to give coms to. No one in the last few expansions from about SB forward, minus a handful of new people who end up on the front page of Tales from Duty finder, tells healers off for being a "filthy dps". In fact, go check Tales from Duty Finder right now, and the majority of topics involving healers are the opposite, wanting healers to DPS who choose not to.

Tell you what, go into PF and tell me how many "Healers aren't allowed to DPS" there are vs "Tanks Damage Down Strat". Cause I still see the later almost everyday. People here have twisted what should be a neutral discussion to address issues they have with a job or role into their own personal pity party. Someone tell me how this statement so many are choosing to support HELPS anyone? Legitimately. Who here realistically expects a dev to read this and go "It's ok lil baby, I'll make sure those big meanies won't hurt you and here is 100k gil for every dungeon and if the party doesn't apologize for you being a healer then they get kicked." Heaven forbid people like myself want meaningful discussions instead of boo hoos from someone who seemingly hasn't cleared the raid tier as a healer?

Yes, a good healer CAN be overlooked almost as much as a good DPS unless you are using the not allowed third party software. But just because no one is consistently thanking you for your actions, and just because you didn't get a com, doesn't devalue your worth. A bad or new player isn't going to recognize a good ANYTHING regardless, so why does it matter if that person doesn't give you a com? I've run a lot of content on multiple jobs and roles and have been given about the same treatment on everything. I've gotten all or none of the coms being a tank or healer doing the minimum or maximum amount of effort, as have many other people I have played with. I still don't know why anyone is basing their value by coms. Who cares. I've given them to people just cause I liked their name.

Paladins using Clemency to heal themselves when they dip below 60%, meanwhile a Recitation > Excogitation is just sitting there ready to pop off from a decently played Scholar.

Love this as argument. "Dear SE, today I had a bad or casual tank player use an ability without fully respecting my own ability. I would like a healers union to ban this player for doing my role and not respecting my effort in a dungeon no one cares about." It's comments like this that actually very heavily detract from meaningful discussion on legitimate issues. "Dear SE, I popped TBN as a DRK and the WHM put a Divine Benison which cause my TBN to not pop and therefor I want them banned because they did not respect my job." See how that sounds?

Y'all can tear this apart, I don't care. I have tried, over and over again, in earnest to steer the conversations towards actual discussions. I have provided breakdowns, my own thought, thoughts of others, and have on the rare occasion had decent discussion on how SE can make healers specifically more enjoyable. But this ^ type of stuff detracts, deters, and is generally unhelpful when it comes to legitimate discussion.

[BaconBits]

Bootlickery .

Be honest, how much is SE paying you to provide them with such quality spit shining?

[HyoMinPark]

snip

I have to ask: do you actually play healers? I want an honest answer. I’m only asking because you speak like someone who does not, and as someone who does not understand why healer mains are so salty and fed up with the way they are treated. Not just by the community for being shat on for playing well (read: DPSing as a healer, not having a 79% overheal from 100% Medica II uptime, not spamming Cure I in EW dungeons—I could go on), but also by the developers. Who have let healer gameplay stagnate for years all because of the Sylphies in the community, or other poor healers that simply play badly. Who continuously tell healers to wait for this, wait for that, maybe next expansion—oh wait! We need to “balance the healers” so please wait another 2+ years…

Citing the Tales from DF is poor here—of course people there want healers that actively contribute because they aren’t part of the community who thinks it’s okay and/or acceptable for healers to be virtually AFK most of a fight. If you notice, they also think “you pull it, you tank it” is a trash attitude, yet people on other subreddits, here, and on other platforms advocate for it. Same as they advocate for healers to mostly heal and “you don’t have to deal damage if it stresses you out because you’re a healer FIRST”.


And in response to your clearing a tier on a healer: I can’t speak for anyone else in this thread, but I have. So if that’s your criterion, I’ve met it. I’ve also routinely healed Extremes since I started playing FFXIV, and I cleared UCoB on AST. I have the experience, and I speak from my experience. Which seems to be shared by other healer mains.

I honestly don’t care about commendations. It’s not about collecting them or any nonsense of the sort. It’s more so about the fact when you’re the one obviously carrying your cohealer, and they walk away with the pat on the back while your efforts go unrecognized. I have seen it happen plenty. I have been on the receiving end of being accused of “only DPSing” or chadding my cohealer, when the reality is I’m doing the brunt of the work. I just don’t see the need to waste my mana and my GCD on 100% HoT uptime or using Physick to top off Bobby the Bumbling Bard because they got hit by an AOE that Eos will be more than enough to top them off.