Thread: A DRK Rework Suggestion for 7.0 (or beyond)

But also, and I need to stress this: You are cherrypicking examples of games where Dark Knight had consolation survivability to ensure it had time to utilize its stacking effects, and not examples that are common or iconic to the job across the series.

I don't remember any FF game where you could completely negate damage other than a Dragoon jumping for a turn or Draining a element. I'm just saying I understand why FFXIV's DRK is a barrier/magic defense tank because of the things I listed and I don't understand how I'm cherry picking when I used all the relevant DRKs in FF in terms of gameplay. The only one I didn't use was FFT, that one just has Drain and that's about it. No Cecil isn't relevant for obvious reasons, but if you're going to deny that then I know you're just arguing semantics.

Also, I'm suspecting you haven't played the Bravely games. Each job has elements that can be built around so if DRK has mitigation tools you can practically make it a undying tank if that's what you want to build.

And I keep pointing out to you that the example you gave of Dark Knight, whose skillset is focused around churning out damage from low health, is counter to the second point without some element of sustainability. Unless the devs decide to go the Poppy route (for something other than an Immune skill), who judging by the use of "old version", I assume was horrifically overpowered and got nerfed in the end?
And also, I assume that her damage output wasn't reliant on her having some amount of health to spend, rather than just sitting on 95% mitigation at 5% HP?

Now I know you haven't played it. Bravely default and Second work on a party order, meaning your entire party acts first then the enemy's party, if you want a DRK you build it around the fact you're going to hit till you're 1HP then heal that and bolster its defense for the enemy's turn. You don't just stay at low HP the whole fight, your whole party has to be built around sustainability otherwise it simply doesn't work, at least be upfront on what you're arguing about instead of talking in circles.

Poppy was one of the first champions on League so she needed a rework. She still has that passive but the game has too much outgoing damage now and HP based percentage damage so old Poppy wouldn't work either.

Originally Posted by Aluja89

or Draining a element.

I literally said. That Absorb counted. Twice now.

As do things like Null spells, Reflect magic, Barrier and Magic Barrier (in games outside FF7R where they act more like Protect and Shell), even that quirky Interceptor Guard from FF6 -- an event where something else takes the hit for you.

Also, I'm suspecting you haven't played the Bravely games.

Now I know you haven't played it.

Not exactly a "gotcha" if that's what you're going for, FF as a series is expansive. Which is also why from the outside of that perspective, using examples largely specific to spinoff titles releasing during XIV's lifetime as your precedent reads as obsessive rather than constructive, especially given that Drain magic/Blood Weapon skills are more iconic to the Dark Knight across its history.

You don't just stay at low HP the whole fight, your whole party has to be built around sustainability otherwise it simply doesn't work, at least be upfront on what you're arguing about instead of talking in circles.

I've been upfront about my argument the whole time, I haven't been dancing around it, nor has it actually changed from the very first time I quoted you. You've just been missing the point, repeating yourself, and arguing for the sake of arguing.

Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

FFIII: M. Knight (somewhat retooled to Dark Knight)
FFX-2: Dark Knight
FFXI: Dark Knight
FFIV: Cecil

I'm not sure I would count II (Leon only has the title, not the abilities), but III's was named "Dark Knight" in most releases, and I would also add:

Rev. Wings: Ba'gamnan
Tactics: both the job and Gafgarion
Type-0: Machina (Sice is more of a RPR example)
And probably a number of other side-entries (Crystal Chronicles, Dimensions, Chocobo Dungeon, Record Keeper, etc).

... And a bit over half of those have access to some sort of siphoning magic to offset Darkside's cost. In addition to XIV's own already having multiple siphoning skills since inception.

(This is ignoring customizable characters such as Zack or several FF8 characters who could be given Darkside, and also Siphon Strike or Drain.)

The assumption that most of the FF Dark Knight entries are in Bravely is... appalling, because it would be far from an iconic job if true given how recent Bravely is.