Sundering stuff established in the Q&A

[tokinokanatae]

There is no contradiction. Yoshi-P said very clearly that she was trying to preserve the timeline that led to the WoL, which would mean the Calamities had to occur.

I’m sure she was very sad about it, though.

[Absimiliard]

In other words, Yoshi-P favors the idea of it being a stable time loop, and most of the in-game events do support this interpretation. Moreover, this would mean it's not the first loop, and it won't be the last. Stable time loops are eternal unless some external force swoops in to disrupt them. Makes one wonder just how many times the loop has repeated now. The entire system would essentially be consigned to it, as the loop was forced into being a necessity for Etheirys to survive.

[EaraGrace]

In other words, Yoshi-P favors the idea of it being a stable time loop, and most of the in-game events do support this interpretation. Moreover, this would mean it's not the first loop, and it won't be the last. Stable time loops are eternal unless some external force swoops in to disrupt them.

Agreed. This song feels particularly apt.

We lean to turn in the velodrome
All lines are curved in the velodrome
We pitch and roll, wheels
Flesh and bone
Total control and it's
It's ours alone

[tokinokanatae]

Okay, sure. There must be a different explanation as to why Venat purposely did her absolute best to allow the person that would cause the Calamities escape as opposed to oh, say, Azem?

Like, she was deliberately aiming for Emet-Selch to live. Knowing he’d attempt to rejoin the Shards. Guess the other option is that she was really excited about him being mentally tortured for thousands of years?

[EaraGrace]

Okay, sure. There must be a different explanation as to why Venat purposely did her absolute best to allow the person that would cause the Calamities escape as opposed to oh, say, Azem?

Like, she was deliberately aiming for Emet-Selch to live. Knowing he’d attempt to rejoin the Shards. Guess the other option is that she was really excited about him being mentally tortured for thousands of years?

That is the question we have to answer and why I’m curious about it. It’s possible she wanted him to remain Unsundered so as to retain some ability to remember Elpis, perhaps with the goal of having him remember, explaining her plan, and then having his aid.

Just theories though at the moment.

[Lurina]

That is the question we have to answer and why I’m curious about it. It’s possible she wanted him to remain Unsundered so as to retain some ability to remember Elpis, perhaps with the goal of having him remember, explaining her plan, and then having his aid.

Just theories though at the moment.

The quote from the Q&A begins by referencing the scene in Ultima Thule where Emet discusses the idea that his role in what has happened has all been a part of Venat's plan, and then expands from a place of confirming the accuracy of his supposition. "As you think back to the text towards the end Emet-Selch did imply that Venat let him live unsundered. In fact Venat did intentionally leave a tiny floor in her Sundering attack... (etc)"

As a reminder, this is the quote from Emet which is being referred to here.

So here I am, Venat. I suppose you needed me to tie it all together, these frayed threads of history.

In my opinion, in context, this represents a implicit confirmation of what Emet is saying in this scene - that she spared him to "tie these frayed threads of history", which is to say, to resolve the time loop.

[SpectrePhantasia]

Yeah, I think it is pretty clear that her letting Emet (and friends) live was so that she could at least loosely maintain the events that were relayed to her. It's just the only explanation that makes sense, otherwise there is absolutely no reason to leave Emet be, knowing what he would do. This in mind, her previous 'failures' as she put it, are either lore bits that did not age well, or straight up lies—the more sensible explanation, as she has done that before. Not a good look to be like ' I let all those happen so we can get to the point in the world I have knowledge about,' even if it is for a good cause.

But that's the problem with Venat isn't it? She held on so tightly to that vision of a hopeful future, that she dared not make palpable change in any noticeable regard to her own time. To the point where becoming aware of the WoL's world made her all but completely give up on her own people. She let millions upon millions die all for this purpose, and now the Rejoinings add to her body count. These were the losses that Venat was willing to incur to win her future, and as the devs have put it, she can absolutely be criticized for cowardly following the path of least resistance.

I'm glad to see the acknowledged comparison between her and Emet-selch, as she also stubbornly refused to look at things in any other way, and really is a mirror of his beliefs.

[EaraGrace]

Yeah, I think it is pretty clear that her letting Emet (and friends) live was so that she could at least loosely maintain the events that were relayed to her. It's just the only explanation that makes sense, otherwise there is absolutely no reason to leave Emet be, knowing what he would do.

I could see a lot of reasons to leave one of three people who would know of Meteion, who also happens to be a powerful sorcerer and a pragmatist, alive. Ultimately the question hinges on whether the other two were as intended as he was, which requires information we don’t have. We know they were together for some reason, and that the crack was only capable of being utilized by Emet. Venat somehow got the three of them together at the perfect moment, and hinged everything in a gamble that they’d make through, a fact that Yoshi P notes was far from certain. It’s a lot more of a gamble than simply hoping he makes it but not necessarily needing him as the alternative would have.

This in mind, her previous 'failures' as she put it, are either lore bits that did not age well, or straight up lies—the more sensible explanation, as she has done that before. Not a good look to be like ' I let all those happen so we can get to the point in the world I have knowledge about,' even if it is for a good cause.

I can think of only one major lie, which is regarding Zodiark and Hydaelyns origins, a lie that was explicitly addressed in the narrative. I understand that some believe her to be an outrageous lying manipulator, but that’s not how I see her and I am not swayed by that argument, especially when other explanations exist and remain logical.

But that's the problem with Venat isn't it? She held on so tightly to that vision of a hopeful future, that she dared not make palpable change in any noticeable regard to her own time. To the point where becoming aware of the WoL's world made her all but completely give up on her own people. She let millions upon millions die all for this purpose, and now the Rejoinings add to her body count. These were the losses that Venat was willing to incur to win her future, and as the devs have put it, she can absolutely be criticized for cowardly following the path of least resistance.

Once again I heavily disagree. If she were so set on the timeline we presented, there would be no need to approach or try to convince the Ancients and thr Convocation. There would be no need to resist the calamities that she knows about, nor any reason to expend needed strength to go against them. Her efforts to stop Fandaniel and Zenos from killing Zodiark would not make sense if this were true. Her actions don’t speak to this motivation, nor do her words. Thus, I don’t believe it’s true.

[tokinokanatae]

Except he would have remembered Elpis had he died, so that’s pretty odd. Also, other the quickest way to get his aid would have been to tell him about Meteion, which she didn’t, even though she had 12,000 years to mention it.

Also strange to me how Yoshi-P’s words are up for debate in this instance, but not in regards to the Plenty being the inescapable end of the Unsundered, since both are put forth as dev supposition.

[EaraGrace]

Except he would have remembered Elpis had he died, so that’s pretty odd. Also, other the quickest way to get his aid would have been to tell him about Meteion, which she didn’t, even though she had 12,000 years to mention it.

Also strange to me how Yoshi-P’s words are up for debate in this instance, but not in regards to the Plenty being the inescapable end of the Unsundered, since both are put forth as dev supposition.

Then perhaps it’s more desire to retain both a powerful ally and someone willing to fight for the star? Hermes memories did indeed come back even after the Sundering, but Hermes himself, his love for animals and his personality were lost as a consequence. Should Emet have been Sundered and died, he would inevitably end up dissipating into the aetheric sea, and be reborn as a new person. One with lessened strength, unique personality, differing outlook on the world, and only vague dreams of Elpis. Which would leave Hythlo as the only one to join us in Ultima, or help us out at all should we need it.

The quote from the Q&A begins by referencing the scene in Ultima Thule where Emet discusses the idea that his role in what has happened has all been a part of Venat's plan, and then expands from a place of confirming the accuracy of his supposition. "As you think back to the text towards the end Emet-Selch did imply that Venat let him live unsundered. In fact Venat did intentionally leave a tiny floor in her Sundering attack... (etc)"

As a reminder, this is the quote from Emet which is being referred to here.



In my opinion, in context, this represents a confirmation of what Emet is saying in this scene - that she spared him to "tie these frayed threads of history", which is to say, to resolve the time loop.

Right that makes sense post Zodiark destruction. The timeline playing out as it did is the only option left. She would need him to finish the loop, but before that is still blurry. She notably only says “a conjunction has begun to form” only after our visit to the First, and then confirms the convergence when we mention Elpis to her in the Aetherial Sea. Which would suggest it’s up in the air before then. Which leaves us with both the issue of the Calamities and her efforts to halt them, calamities that would be necessary for the time line to be maintained.

It’s in that that I remain questioning.