Sundering stuff established in the Q&A

[thegreatonemal]

Nobody is obligated to like Venat nor do they need to agree with or approve of her actions.

Did I say that? No. You don't have to like her. Keep your reasons for not liking her to the story in question and not your speculations on what ifs and just making stuff up. A lot of the dislike seems to come from that she didn't give her people a chance, which is a lie, they were given a chance and a choice and they choose to not deal with the problem and its aftermath and simply hide behind Zodiark.

[Theodric]

Did I say that? No. You don't have to like her. Keep your reasons for not liking her to the story in question and not your speculations on what ifs and just making stuff up. A lot of the dislike seems to come from that she didn't give her people a chance, which is a lie, they were given a chance and a choice and they choose to not deal with the problem and its aftermath and simply hide behind Zodiark.

You're free to frame it however you so wish yet that isn't what I or others opposed to Venat have been doing. There's no grand conspiracy against the character, I assure you - especially since I found Venat to be pretty likable for most of the Elpis MSQ's.

I'd also consider not using every tool possible in order to save her civilisation and species to be worthy of scorn, because stories where some subversive individual arises to kill everyone 'for their own good' don't tend to do much for me, I'm afraid. As Venat herself proclaimed 'nothing is impossible'. Except, apparently, preserving her own species.

The criticism of the Zodiark plan is also deceptive. Putting aside that it was only Venat's opinion that the Ancients would eventually destroy themselves based on Meteion's report, let's not forget the key element at play. Venat deliberately held back information regarding the approach of the Final Days as well as the existence of Meteion. Then opted to judge the Ancients as a whole based on...reacting to a traumatic event sprung on them entirely out of the blue and deciding to write them off despite not giving them the information required to find a way to combat Meteion. Or at least exhaust every possibility from within Zodiark's protective barrier.

After all, let us not forget that if not for Zodiark there would be no Etheirys as it was the first and second round of sacrifices that resulted in the restoration of living conditions upon the planet as a whole.

Yesterday's lore Q&A only served to give me another reason to dislike Venat given that she is the one who saved the three Unsundered despite knowing exactly what they planned to do. In other words, she is directly complicit in the torment of the three Unsundered as well as responsible for the conditions that allowed for every Ascian plot to come to fruition - including the Rejoinings.

I think it was a weird way to tie everything together and although I don't like Venat as a character, I sympathise with those who do. It arguably takes away the agency not only of Venat but multiple other characters and factions. Yet at the end of the day it is what it is.

[KageTokage]

I'm kind of hoping that maybe Pandemonium might shed a little light on just how strongly the Ancients were being influenced by Zodiark given that there's something seemingly imbuing the wardens with an irrational reverence for Lahabrea.

[Lauront]

I'm kind of hoping that maybe Pandemonium might shed a little light on just how strongly the Ancients were being influenced by Zodiark given that there's something seemingly imbuing the wardens with an irrational reverence for Lahabrea.

If anything, the sort of mind control there reminds me of what Ultima was able to effect via her auracites in the Ivalice raid series, i.e. acting on the possessor's desires to corrupt them. With it predating Zodiark's summoning, my guess is the source would be something else.

[KageTokage]

If anything, the sort of mind control there reminds me of what Ultima was able to effect via her auracites in the Ivalice raid series, i.e. acting on the possessor's desires to corrupt them. With it predating Zodiark's summoning, my guess is the source would be something else.

I was thinking more along the lines of there being some manner of other primal-like entity that's tempering the wardens somehow, though auracite also seems plausible given that the Heart of Sabik was implied to be far older then even the Allagans and perhaps all these shenanigans came about as a result of Lahabrea's initial tests on it.

[Rannie]

I was thinking more along the lines of there being some manner of other primal-like entity that's tempering the wardens somehow, though auracite also seems plausible given that the Heart of Sabik was implied to be far older then even the Allagans and perhaps all these shenanigans came about as a result of Lahabrea's initial tests on it.

And this still takes me back to my theory that Lahabrea is just a crazy mad scientist and still see him standing over a desk with a petri dish, a lit bunsen burner and a test tube being heated laughing magically saying, "ITS ALLLLIIVVVEEE"

And can't forget his long winded monologuing to his assistant Igor they ALWAYS have an Igor....

[RyuDragnier]

And this still takes me back to my theory that Lahabrea is just a crazy mad scientist and still see him standing over a desk with a petri dish, a lit bunsen burner and a test tube being heated laughing magically saying, "ITS ALLLLIIVVVEEE"

And can't forget his long winded monologuing to his assistant Igor they ALWAYS have an Igor....

Now watch Pandaemonium reveal him to be incredibly handsome and well meaning, just to twist a knife in us and make us sympathize for him, especially if his madness was caused by the loss of Athena.

[Rannie]

Hmmmm, this is reminding me sort of but not completely on the Vorlons vrs the Shadows in Babylon 5. I say that due to the fact that neither side was right over whose idea was better at shepherding the younger races when it concerned chaos (the weak shall perish the strong shall live) against order (the strong must protect the weak etc). Granted that is a loose interpretation of the Great War with the Shadows.

Anyway my point being is when it comes to both Venat and the Ascians technically neither side is right, however one has to also look at it from the views of those who are living in the here and now. It's not that hard to see coming from their point of view how they would try to venerate Venat more before and after the entire scenario and throw shade on the likes of Emet, Lahabrea and Elidibus. Sending now so I go and edit it for more.... so I ain't done yet =P

From their current perspective it was all long done history and there was nothing they could do about it. (Even though the WoL was sent back to the past Nothing changed for them and was told that they couldn't or shouldn't change cause time loop but not going to argue with that cause fuck that).

Then there is the fact that the ascians themselves screwed up just as much, in so far as they the unsundered, had plenty of opportunity after the sundering to get the people of the source and shards swayed to their way of thinking, ie the rejoinings, instead they only decided to try to work together after twelve thousand years and blood shed., which by all accounts from the point of view of someone who is currently sundered, tantamount with not death only on a grand scale but the literal destruction of entire planets just to get their loved ones back to normal.

In the end as I said before it's easy to see how they the NPCs can see things how they do with how their lives were and how things were presented.

Note: I like both Venat and Emet Selch, as characters. I want a squeezable Emet who snaps his finger when you hug him, but both sides have screwed up and a lot of people are also forgetting the current lives that are living in the game. I myself would say to both of them though to get the hell out of my galaxy.

[MikkoAkure]

I only doubt it because Erich is unskilled with anything other than binding magicks, whereas Lahabrea is skilled with fire and creation. If anything though, Erich may be the one whom The Watcher is based on, since The Watcher was there dealing with Zodiark's cell the entire time, something Erich would be incredibly familiar with having lived in Pandaemonium most of his life.

Less “this makes sense according to the narrative” and more “I feel like this is what the writers would do”. Plus there could have been a long time between then and Zodiark time. Every little Ascian had to start somewhere.

[Jonnycbad]

Emet and the unsundered were literally unsundered because when we explained our past to Venat and the others offscreen, we likely explained our entire journey from ARR to EW. Knowing Laha, Elidibus and Emet were our adversaries in the future, she likely spared them since those 3 were integral in leading the events that led up to us being groomed into the warrior of light (various calamities, allagan empire, Garleans, Ultima Weapon, primals, etc). Without those 3 being unsundered, we would never have met the scions or fought all these powerful adversaries and got to where we are. They are literally nexus characters that are required to groom our WoL into the hero they are to save the universe. It was the longest of long cons.