Community Feedback for improvement of all existing PvP in 6.1

[Misuzurin]

WHM has the easiest time to deal AOE damage compared to the other healer jobs. Also looking at the healing amount at the end of the match in Frontlines is pointless cause shields do not count as healing so pure healing/regen jobs like WHM will always pull bigger numbers than the other healers. Also if you are a WHM in a premade party that fights all the time so that your party is considered to be "in combat" and you have regen effects applied to the party members you basically constantly heal. I have seen WHM heal 4-5 million in a match just by spamming heals in a 10 minute fight at the middle of Onsal

Looking at the metrics is how I evaluate my own performance. And when 90% of the healer playerbase only plays WHM, it inclines me to look further as well. I am less concerned about the healing numbers than I am about the damage. I get that it is easier to aoe on WHM, but due to how Battle High currently works; a, the will get more assists naturally and b, allow for easier kills for the rest of the party to get more Battle High. Seems to be much more impactful than what the other 2 healers can do. I haven't gone out of my way to unlock and learn Sage yet, so no comment there. And I am talking from a pure PUG perspective, not premades.

[Mistress_Irika]

There's already a comeback mechanic in Frontlines: when one team gets ahead, the other teams 2v1 them. Of course they cock it up most of the time, though.

These days I see more than half of the 2v1s be directed at the last place team over the leading team.

[Charlotte_Wells]

Every Zodiark premade I have seen runs around freely and not in an obvious 4 player pile where everyone is exactly doing same movements etc. ...

I didn't wrote that. But yeah, this would be too obvious . According to google there are definitely solutions for syncing groups. And i'm really surprised that you experienced those auto reactions in feast too because its so easy to recognize.

[Nanne]

I didn't wrote that. But yeah, this would be too obvious . According to google there are definitely solutions for syncing groups.

Oh sorry its just that in every other MMO I played multiboxing always meant those big groups of players that are doing same actions

[Sinstrel]

I really enjoy Frontline, and the most fun thing about it is the Player vs Player experience. The things I have the least fun with are the RNG PvE objectives within the games as they reduce the amount of strategizing my team is capable of successfully executing. Could you consider reducing or removing RNG PvE elements from PvP? I had a few ideas;

1. For Borderlands (Secure) - could you remove the PvE monsters from the middle platform, and instead have the middle platform become a base? The middle base could serve to multiply the amount of points generated by the other bases your team owns. This change could make middle a highly contested area throughout the entirety of the game instead of on a 4 minute PvE pattern, increase the desirability of the outer bases, and would make it easier for new players to understand the game mode. Many new players do not understand when the PvE monsters spawn so they run around aimlessly and cannot participate unless someone types out a direct instructions, which is difficult to do in the middle of combat while playing on a controller.

2. For Fields of Glory (Shatter) - Could you consider reducing the amount of points the ice give so that PvE objectives will not grant enough points to win a game. And increasing the amount of points earned from owning the bases. This change would divide the game mode in two phases, and force players to commit to Player vs Player for the remaining half of points required for victory.

Currently, the PvE Ice monsters in Fields of Glory (Shatter) are non-interactive, do not change the tide of battle by granting buffs like Rival Wing PvE monsters, and just stand there like a training dummy. This seems out of place for a PvP game mode.

[OskarXCI]

1. For Borderlands (Secure) - could you remove the PvE monsters from the middle platform, and instead have the middle platform become a base? The middle base could serve to multiply the amount of points generated by the other bases your team owns. This change could make middle a highly contested area throughout the entirety of the game instead of on a 4 minute PvE pattern, increase the desirability of the outer bases, and would make it easier for new players to understand the game mode. Many new players do not understand when the PvE monsters spawn so they run around aimlessly and cannot participate unless someone types out a direct instructions, which is difficult to do in the middle of combat while playing on a controller.

2. For Fields of Glory (Shatter) - Could you consider reducing the amount of points the ice give so that PvE objectives will not grant enough points to win a game. And increasing the amount of points earned from owning the bases. This change would divide the game mode in two phases, and force players to commit to Player vs Player for the remaining half of points required for victory.

I like the spirit behind your suggestions for Frontline maps

My thoughts:

1. I would keep the drones and node for Secure but reduce the amount of times they spawn. One wave at 19:00 and another at 10:00 at the same time as the large node. I think it's too much of a focus on the PvE objectives in the map's current state. Also reduce the amount points you need to win a match from 1600 to 1500. Secure is the only map that can go the full match length of 20 min. The other maps never go for the full duration and tend to end between 10-16 mins in. Also increase the amounts of points you get over time for owning bases.

Right now the points over time (PoT) for owning bases is

1 base = 1 PoT
2 bases = 2 PoT
3 bases = 4 PoT
4 bases = 8 PoT
5 bases = 16 PoT
6 bases = 32 PoT

I would change it to

1 base = 2 PoT
2 bases = 3 PoT
3 bases = 5 PoT
4 bases = 10 PoT
5 bases = 20 PoT
6 bases = 40 PoT

2. Very much agree with your suggested changes for Shatter. But I would also add that you should gain more points for K.Os while inside the boundaries of a base. This to encourage more engagement around the bases and not having people in the middle of the map waiting for big ice to spawn.

[Sinstrel]

Right now the points over time (PoT) for owning bases is

1 base = 1 PoT
2 bases = 2 PoT
3 bases = 4 PoT
4 bases = 8 PoT
5 bases = 16 PoT
6 bases = 32 PoT

I would change it to

1 base = 2 PoT
2 bases = 3 PoT
3 bases = 5 PoT
4 bases = 10 PoT
5 bases = 20 PoT
6 bases = 40 PoT

This is fair. I also think it could go a step further. The original base PoT values were created back when there were no light speed mounts, no invincibility that seemingly lasts forever, and an increasing wait time to resurrect upon accumulating deaths. Back then, it was possible to secure 6 bases. With the current invincibility buffs, immediate and unlimited resurrecting and tier 3 mount speeds, it is impossible to secure all 6 bases because the opposing teams can immediately resurrect and reach the surrounding bases while still invincible. The base PoT could be changed to

1 base = 5 PoT
2 base = 20 PoT
3 base = 30 PoT

Owning additional bases beyond 3 (very unlikely to be held for any significant amount of time) could grant a multiplier, or raidwide buffs such as:

4 bases = 1.5x multiplier or GCD speed/mount speed/reduced damage taken while in all base circles (like Rival Wings)
5 bases = 2x multiplier " " "
6 bases = 2.5x multiplier " " "

[Divinemights]

1. For Borderlands (Secure) - could you remove the PvE monsters from the middle platform, and instead have the middle platform become a base? The middle base could serve to multiply the amount of points generated by the other bases your team owns. This change could make middle a highly contested area throughout the entirety of the game instead of on a 4 minute PvE pattern, increase the desirability of the outer bases, and would make it easier for new players to understand the game mode. Many new players do not understand when the PvE monsters spawn so they run around aimlessly and cannot participate unless someone types out a direct instructions, which is difficult to do in the middle of combat while playing on a controller.

2. For Fields of Glory (Shatter) - Could you consider reducing the amount of points the ice give so that PvE objectives will not grant enough points to win a game. And increasing the amount of points earned from owning the bases. This change would divide the game mode in two phases, and force players to commit to Player vs Player for the remaining half of points required for victory.

Currently, the PvE Ice monsters in Fields of Glory (Shatter) are non-interactive, do not change the tide of battle by granting buffs like Rival Wing PvE monsters, and just stand there like a training dummy. This seems out of place for a PvP game mode.

I afraid that you misunderstood Frontline fundamentally in this case.
TLDR, what I am about to say has no ill attention or on purposely trash EN/EU community as whole.

There is always a misconception about Frontline from EN/EU community, people in general thinks it is just a copy of WoW's Player vs Player battleground.
The truth is Frontline is a variation of MOBA, a subgenre of real time action strategy game.
It is somewhere between Action game and SLG game.
There are 3 teams in total and each team has 24 resources and each resource is control by one player.
The key to win a frontline is how to adopt to situation created by RNG in real time and manage your limited 24 resources.

Drones and Ice have their meaning in Secure and Shattered and it works the same way as towers in MOBA.
Many of MOBA terminology can be apply to Frontline.
For examples:
High Battle High players are ADC, they are usually veterans becomes formidable at end game and deal most of damage to enemy players.
Normal players are Pushers, they are primary responsible of fulfill objective (such as Ice and Drone) and following ADC's kill sign.
The use of terrain is also a key in Frontline like every other SLG game; however, most EU/NA players choose to push through with brute force instead of using terrain wisely.
Considering all Frontline maps terrain are well designed and each fighting node will always have two exits

Frontline is widely accepted as SLG game by JP/KO/CN and there is the main reason why you are always seeing someone taking the mantle of "commander" or "shot caller"
This person will be primary in charge of how to use this 24 resources.
In general, they will have much better Frontline experience because general players over there knew they are playing a strategy game.

When it comes to EN/EU, due to people's misunderstood of Frontline resulting to bad Frontline experience and this is why you are seeing other thread asking to delete Frontline.
Every said in that thread just showing how deep they do not understand.

[Sinstrel]

Frontline is widely accepted as SLG game by JP/KO/CN and there is the main reason why you are always seeing someone taking the mantle of "commander" or "shot caller"
This person will be primary in charge of how to use this 24 resources.
In general, they will have much better Frontline experience because general players over there knew they are playing a strategy game.

When it comes to EN/EU, due to people's misunderstood of Frontline resulting to bad Frontline experience and this is why you are seeing other thread asking to delete Frontline.
Every said in that thread just showing how deep they do not understand.

It's true a lot of people do not understand how to play Frontline. Part of that is due to SquareEnix deciding on a large amount of PvE objectives that give various amounts of points for its PvP content, and no in-game tutorial on said PvE objectives and point values. However, even those of us who do understand how Frontline is played still do not enjoy it.

While this SLG style might be fun for asian servers, it's not fun for many NA/EU players regardless of their understanding of the format. This is unacceptable due to the lack of current options for PvP content. With the addition of crystal conflict, some will like it and some wont. With such a large portion of the avid PvP community on NA/EU disagreeing on Frontline, if they also do not like crystal conflict then there will be no option for them.

Asian servers generally prefer to have a commander giving them step by step instructions. NA/EU servers generally prefer to learn/try/do things on their own, developing new playstyles. There are KO/JP/CN players who have played thousands of games and very high win rates in the large group format just as there are players like myself who have played thousands of games solo and have the same win rate. Both playstyles are totally acceptable regardless of the player's understanding of the game, many asian players come to NA/EU just to experience the freedom of doing what they want for a change.

Frontline should not be 1 playstyle only. It should allow for the flexibility so that regardless of playstyles and levels of understanding, a team can still challenge objectives and be just as formidable as any other playstyle. This would make it fun for everyone.

Tldr; There are cultural differences which make the zerging 24v24v24 strategies (not going on your own) on asian servers fun, but do not work with NA/EU's culture of independence. Square Enix should listen to our feedback to re-evaluate frontline so that it is fun for ALL paying players.

[Sinstrel]

Please consider bringing back 8v8v8 Frontlines or a new option for medium-scale PvP. Currently there is extremely large scale (72 players) or small-scale 4v4 (now 5v5) but no option for medium scale PvP such as 8v8, 10v10 or 8v8v8.

Medium scale PvP roulette in the form of solo-que 8v8v8, or team-only que 8v8v8 would be nice. Or the addition of either new Frontlines or a new game mode which allows medium-scale PvP.