"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Miracle_Diva]

whats ur Sastasha record

36 sprouts crying, 41 leavers, 19 mentors banned for inappropriate speech usage.

[TaleraRistain]

I think SE could do with making W2Ws a bit harder since everybody loves them. Perhaps adding mobs that buff other enemies just from being around them. That way W2W becomes a skill check and not just a braindead thing.

They did that a bit in ShB with the Fuath who will buff the big guys and tethered mobs that will debuff who they're tethered to like in Amaurot with mobs that tether to the healer. Problem is the w2w mentality just has those mobs ignored. I would explain to groups when Amaurot came out that I was struggling because the tethered mob was severely limiting my healing and then if we wiped, they would just ignore it again. In this expansion, they had mobs with donut AoEs that should be safe spots that just get line AoEs pulled right over them. I see this often in Euphrosyne especially with the ice mobs. There's often no safe spot in range of hitting for a melee. Gotta dip out of the AoEs entirely to not die because the tanks don't care how anything is arranged. W2W is never going to become a skill check because it's not a method that requires that sort of skill or attention to detail. It's just pull everything and burn it down.

[ForteNightshade]

an instance of completing a video game, or level of a game, as fast as possible.

google.

Dungeons is a chill activity. Is that hard to undestand? if you want to speedrun dungeons then you should do it with a private party. Not forcing tanks to play the way you want. But if you don't like how people tank then you can tank or play healer and tell them that they can do w2w pulls.

Have you considered what each person finds chill will be subjective? Speaking for myself, I find blitzing through dungeons efficiently for leveling purposes to be chill simply because the content itself is piss easy. I don't have to think, I simply spam buttons—often with music or a podcast in the background. Going slow means I'll have to run more dungeons and waste time on boring content. At the end of the day, I run dungeons as an ends to means not because I necessarily enjoy them. They're just the best way to level. Although, I should note I don't dislike them either. Bit of an indifference unless they're bogged down in some form or another.

Simply put, your definition of chill and mine are very different. Is that hard to understand?

[Kolaina]

They did that a bit in ShB with the Fuath who will buff the big guys and tethered mobs that will debuff who they're tethered to like in Amaurot with mobs that tether to the healer. Problem is the w2w mentality just has those mobs ignored. I would explain to groups when Amaurot came out that I was struggling because the tethered mob was severely limiting my healing and then if we wiped, they would just ignore it again. In this expansion, they had mobs with donut AoEs that should be safe spots that just get line AoEs pulled right over them. I see this often in Euphrosyne especially with the ice mobs. There's often no safe spot in range of hitting for a melee. Gotta dip out of the AoEs entirely to not die because the tanks don't care how anything is arranged. W2W is never going to become a skill check because it's not a method that requires that sort of skill or attention to detail. It's just pull everything and burn it down.

Long post to talk about what is no more than a skill issue on the healers part

[RyuDragnier]

They did that a bit in ShB with the Fuath who will buff the big guys and tethered mobs that will debuff who they're tethered to like in Amaurot with mobs that tether to the healer. Problem is the w2w mentality just has those mobs ignored. I would explain to groups when Amaurot came out that I was struggling because the tethered mob was severely limiting my healing and then if we wiped, they would just ignore it again. In this expansion, they had mobs with donut AoEs that should be safe spots that just get line AoEs pulled right over them. I see this often in Euphrosyne especially with the ice mobs. There's often no safe spot in range of hitting for a melee. Gotta dip out of the AoEs entirely to not die because the tanks don't care how anything is arranged. W2W is never going to become a skill check because it's not a method that requires that sort of skill or attention to detail. It's just pull everything and burn it down.

Which is why there NEEDS to be a skill check. W2W pulls should only be possible with DPS, a healer, and a tank that are good. If anybody is subpar, it should either be incredibly difficult or impossible. Why? Because, W2W pulling used to separate the good players from the bad, and would pretty much solve the entire problem. If anybody isn't good enough, it just won't happen.

[TaleraRistain]

Which is why there NEEDS to be a skill check. W2W pulls should only be possible with DPS, a healer, and a tank that are good. If anybody is subpar, it should either be incredibly difficult or impossible. Why? Because, W2W pulling used to separate the good players from the bad, and would pretty much solve the entire problem. If anybody isn't good enough, it just won't happen.

That's how it should go but the mentality is so prevalent now that people would rather wipe a group over and over and over trying to force w2w than assess the party's limits and find what works for that particular makeup. Maybe if it became impossible enough but I worry it would just lead to a lot of unnecessary toxicity when we're all just trying to get through the instance.

[VeyaAkemi]

I worry it would just lead to a lot of unnecessary toxicity when we're all just trying to get through the instance.

This is my expectation, MMO players tend to have a high roll mindset where if you give them two options between high and low, they will always push for the high to be the only acceptable outcome, and while it would also lead to an overall increase in player skill, instead of people just accepting that their current randomly put together group can't pull it off, it probably would also result in anyone who fails to meet the mark getting outright kicked from instances, which in turn can lead to people wrongly getting kicked, because the awful tank is with their buddies and it absolutely can't be their fault so it must be the fault of the random DPS they got matched with, who coincidentally was doing the most damage out of the party.

[RyuDragnier]

This is my expectation, MMO players tend to have a high roll mindset where if you give them two options between high and low, they will always push for the high to be the only acceptable outcome, and while it would also lead to an overall increase in player skill, instead of people just accepting that their current randomly put together group can't pull it off, it probably would also result in anyone who fails to meet the mark getting outright kicked from instances, which in turn can lead to people wrongly getting kicked, because the awful tank is with their buddies and it absolutely can't be their fault so it must be the fault of the random DPS they got matched with, who coincidentally was doing the most damage out of the party.

I'd prefer for those days to be back tbh, because then instead of everybody and their mom thinking "Oh, I'll just brainlessly heavy pull", they have to actually think about it. Yes, I want the player skill ceiling to be raised, if only for the sake of the devs being able to get complex with things again (remember, the current job state is because they think the playerbase can't handle the complexity we had in SB and HW).

[Dorito_Burrito]

I can't recall the last YPYT situation I encountered, if there ever even was one. I think enough players are smart enough to realize the pettiness isn't worth it.

[Tint]

I can't recall the last YPYT situation I encountered, if there ever even was one. I think enough players are smart enough to realize the pettiness isn't worth it.

I was with a tank and healer couple (same last name) a while ago in a dungeon who let the other DD die when he pulled. Sadly that DD left in an instant so no chance to kick them both.

While I am strictly against running ahead and start pulling, letting someone die out of pettiness is even worse.