"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Ravenblade1979]

Like going slow, dragging ass, single pulling.

Thanks for pointing that out

nowhere have i once said that ypyt isn't toxic. you all need to stop forcing that on me as i agreed with it when i didn't. you all just getting uptight because i outright accused you folks of being equally as toxic which also breachs tos. face facts lol.

[MaxCarnage]

But then what's the point? Why smile in the game. If your true face depicts THIS?

I don't understand why people come into the game with such a reputation. And instead of striving to support her, they hate it with all their hearts.

You can love the game without loving every person.

In fact, when you love the game, it just makes you more upset when you interact with people who ruin your experience.

'Cause I love this game. I smile when I'm having fun. But every time I run into an egotistical, self-centred, and/or grandstanding person, makes me not want to play.

You can enjoy things without enjoying every single aspect of it. It's really not that deep.

[Miracle_Diva]

But then what's the point? Why smile in the game. If your true face depicts THIS?

I don't understand why people come into the game with such a reputation. And instead of striving to support her, they hate it with all their hearts.

Because forums are made for expressing opinions. Not everyone has the same opinions. The difference in opinions cause conflict.
Being happy is not a requirement to play the game. People have different lives and circumstances.
Also, being unhappy about something =/= hate.

[Xirean]

as a person who has played this game since 2.3 and seen alot. I would do what I normally do. laugh it off and grab the pack. However, I'm not new by the least to any of the jobs. I am well aware of their kits and how to use them and have seen them frankly through lots of changes. the reason i went this way is the "if 3/4 people vote to go fast, don't matter what the 4th want. either suck it up, leave or be reported". that is a very toxic attitude to have as it ruins gameplay for another who might have wanted to say go healer or wanted to go tank. yeah im including healers because theres even some who struggle with that.

End of this my point stands. the ypyt mentality is toxic but people being equally as toxic with the other side of this. When i go into dailies i have seen and expect any party makeup. i have had fast runs, ive had slow runs but the one thing ive never run into is most of you lol. Probably because off the forums. People actually have a brain and learned to adjust through their time playing.

It's nice to know that in a given party that you would acknowledge what the majority of your party wants and go with that. What I fail to understand is why you do such but then say expecting people to work with what the majority wants is toxic. As far as I've ever been concerned, everyone has a say in the pace of the party and not simply the tank. Saying that the tank has sole jurisdiction over that is rude to three others. People are not toxic for voicing their preference nor are they toxic for recognizing that they are the majority in that small selection of 4 people. It's a single instance and it's not hard to work together to get it done.

Honestly the way you are discussing this matter it really sounds like you think the true toxic part is just having a disagreement at all.

[Ravenblade1979]

alrighty for you folks who feel like the majority should dictate the pace. Scenerio time: a crack endgame paladin is having lag issues due to internet provider but still in a run. 3 of you decide you want a quick run but she isn't able to perform the same as you are with better internet. Would you become toxic in chat towards them, would you report them for breach of tos?

Please tell me what you would do. Im curious

now lets analyze that scenerio. you folks have no prior knowledge of her lag issues. probably go into each run thinking everyone is on better internet although theres people in the country who play on farmervision lol. So with no prior knowledge you don't know nor realize but the toxic behavior is still present in you. 3 of you want a quick run so don't care. might even report the tank although her only issue is lag slowing her down so she trying her best.

Now let me reveal something. In that scenerio is a tank friend of mine. she is cracked on paladin but since she moved to the country is on starlink and sometimes has lag issues. I seen this first hand in a expert run with her where she was just doing single mob pulls. i seen the other two party members want to run ahead but they quickly figured out the pace of the tank and we still got the run done lol. i'm not saying that lag is the reason for every tank or healer but without knowledge what would you all have done had you got into a run with her and she just happened to be lagging? with none of this knowledge would you folks still have reported and been toxic towards her although she is innocent?

[Ravenblade1979]

It's nice to know that in a given party that you would acknowledge what the majority of your party wants and go with that. What I fail to understand is why you do such but then say expecting people to work with what the majority wants is toxic. As far as I've ever been concerned, everyone has a say in the pace of the party and not simply the tank. Saying that the tank has sole jurisdiction over that is rude to three others. People are not toxic for voicing their preference nor are they toxic for recognizing that they are the majority in that small selection of 4 people. It's a single instance and it's not hard to work together to get it done.

Honestly the way you are discussing this matter it really sounds like you think the true toxic part is just having a disagreement at all.

oh....you misunderstood. let me make it clear. i don't care what the other 3 want in the runs if i tank. im there to do my job and get us through alive. im more concerned with keeping trash and bosses off people then what the other 3 people want. however, if i see a dps zoom by me with a mob in tow, ive played long enough to just go "meh" and aggro them. i am also comfy in the tank rolls...well except paladin but thats another can of worms lol. thats the point im trying to make. there are all kinds of players out there and having 3 people go "well we don't care if you new, lagging, not comfy in your role. we want to have a quick run so suck it up buttercup" is the problem im calling toxic.

[Kyasunshine]

You can love the game without loving every person.

In fact, when you love the game, it just makes you more upset when you interact with people who ruin your experience.

'Cause I love this game. I smile when I'm having fun. But every time I run into an egotistical, self-centred, and/or grandstanding person, makes me not want to play.

You can enjoy things without enjoying every single aspect of it. It's really not that deep.

Got it.

But I also hope you understand that this is a slippery slope? What is meant by ego-centrism? The desire of the tank to fulfill its role?

Example. DPS does its part by dealing damage. The healer fulfills its role by replenishing health (and dealing damage). The size of the role of the tank is not so big in the end. Just pull mobs to do dps by hitting defensive abilities.

By taking away the role of pulling mobs from the tank, you are taking away what little fun is available to a person in this role.

Yes, they are not leaders. But we are talking about the game. We are talking about RPG. What is so bad if a person in the role of a tank wants to feel important?

I like to feel important as a tank. BUT. If I'm a healer, I feel that the tank is important and needs to be healed. If I am a DPS I feel that the tank is the one I should hide behind and deal damage.

RP guys. RP. Not your ERP lol. RP. Going into an uncharted cave will you put the healer at the front of the group? I doubt. I'm sure in any film there is always a man with a shield in front. Although....in the lord of the rings, Gandalf walked ahead heh. But I think this is more of an exception.

Don't know. I can't love the game. If it is not loved by those with whom I play it. I can't love fantasy where the party doesn't know how to play. PLAY. People hate DF so much and want to speedrun him. Terrible thing. Who knows if you do all the professions of level 90 you will become the same. But I sort of did ~6-7 and still enjoy the dungeons and can easily go through them slowly.

It's nice to know that in a given party that you would acknowledge what the majority of your party wants and go with that. What I fail to understand is why you do such but then say expecting people to work with what the majority wants is toxic. As far as I've ever been concerned, everyone has a say in the pace of the party and not simply the tank. Saying that the tank has sole jurisdiction over that is rude to three others. People are not toxic for voicing their preference nor are they toxic for recognizing that they are the majority in that small selection of 4 people. It's a single instance and it's not hard to work together to get it done.

Honestly the way you are discussing this matter it really sounds like you think the true toxic part is just having a disagreement at all.

The majority cannot agree with the minority? If there is a tank in the party who wants to do single pulls, I, being a healer, will support his decision. I want to go faster, but I like to think of the weak. I like to think from someone else's point of view. And force coercion only because I want to complete the dungeon faster. I think we understand that you need to be able to love random adventurers?

[MaxCarnage]

nowhere have i once said that ypyt isn't toxic. you all need to stop forcing that on me as i agreed with it when i didn't. you all just getting uptight because i outright accused you folks of being equally as toxic which also breachs tos. face facts lol.

Funny that you keep calling out everyone else for being "toxic" (as if that even means anything nowadays) while being nasty yourself. With all your condescending "lol"s, asking if everyone is lacking intelligence, calling all of us toxic and uptight.

Are you aware of what "toxic" is supposed to mean? Because it doesn't mean someone does something you don't agree with. It's supposed to mean you're being vitriolic and harmful. A poisonous behaviour.

It's not people saying that YPYT is against TOS. It's not people kicking the outlier for difference in play style. It's not people saying that double pulls are more fun. It's not leaving the duty and taking a penalty because you don't like how things are going.

I know you'll just come back with "I never said YPYT isn't toxic!!". I'm aware. I can read. What you keep being disagreed with is over you saying everyone in this thread that isn't you is toxic. (Ironic, since you're being one of the rudest people here). Or you saying that kicking a tank for going slow or pulling for the tank is against ToS (it isn't).

You can't try to manipulate what the ToS says to try to make you right. It's not against ToS to pull as a non-tank. It's not against ToS to kick the tank. It's not against ToS to let the tank have their egotistical tank tantrum while the rest of the group goes ahead.

It IS, however, against ToS to grief (not playing your designated role/turning off tank stance), MPK (letting players who pull die), and refusing to participate (not hitting the mobs and/or refusing to move) in order to "teach the bad DPS a lesson!".

I honestly don't care how many times you say you don't agree with YPYT, I care that you're trying to push a narrative that the ToS is different than it is and that anyone who doesn't follow quietly behind the tank despite their power trips is also toxic and breaching ToS.

It is objectively false. So maybe it's time you take your own advice and:

face facts lol.

[Xirean]

snip

Well first off, there's a lot of assumptions you are making about what people would actually do when faced with someone not going with what the majority wants. I very rarely report people for not doing that. I just play the game. I might tell a friend about it or make a dumb post in Tales of the Duty Finder but that's usually the extent of my concern. Something really bad has to happen for me to report someone. Also I'd like you to define "being toxic in chat". I've been in runs with laggy people plenty of times and often the only thing that pops into chat in those scenarios is pointing out that they are lagging usually followed by a pause of the instance until it sorts itself out.

Now in this scenario with a laggy tank; it would heavily depend on how they are lagging. Are they completely disconnecting, having random freezes, blinking around the map, etc? I've experienced all such situations before with a party member, even the tank, and my go to response is to ask "kill mobs up to the boss and wait?" which I've never really gotten a disagreement on. Am I going to pull mobs to someone who is obviously lagging? Absolutely not, I'd just tank the mobs myself or let the whoever has the bigger dps in that moment do that. No big deal really. If the player has lag issues for a prolonged period of time then I might call for a kick or agree with someone else who calls for a kick. Can't progress the instance very long if one of the players literally can't play.

[Miracle_Diva]

Got it.

But I also hope you understand that this is a slippery slope? What is meant by ego-centrism? The desire of the tank to fulfill its role?

Example. DPS does its part by dealing damage. The healer fulfills its role by replenishing health (and dealing damage). The size of the role of the tank is not so big in the end. Just pull mobs to do dps by hitting defensive abilities.

By taking away the role of pulling mobs from the tank, you are taking away what little fun is available to a person in this role.

Yes, they are not leaders. But we are talking about the game. We are talking about RPG. What is so bad if a person in the role of a tank wants to feel important?

I like to feel important as a tank. BUT. If I'm a healer, I feel that the tank is important and needs to be healed. If I am a DPS I feel that the tank is the one I should hide behind and deal damage.

RP guys. RP. Not your ERP lol. RP. Going into an uncharted cave will you put the healer at the front of the group? I doubt. I'm sure in any film there is always a man with a shield in front. Although....in the lord of the rings, Gandalf walked ahead heh. But I think this is more of an exception.

Don't know. I can't love the game. If it is not loved by those with whom I play it. I can't love fantasy where the party doesn't know how to play. PLAY. People hate DF so much and want to speedrun him. Terrible thing. Who knows if you do all the professions of level 90 you will become the same. But I sort of did ~6-7 and still enjoy the dungeons and can easily go through them slowly.

Pulling mobs is not a role.

Not everyone likes to RP.

Everyone in a party is important. Equialy.

If you don't enjoy the game - don't play it. Find yourself something else.

No one hates DF. People are tired from same duties playing this game for a decade. Dungeons are not engaging.

Explain "speedrunning". If you mean this from a standpoint of RP, then no, walking through a dungeon is not interesting to everyone.

Not everyone has a lot of time to play the game.

It's not astrophysics.