Living Dead Change: Instead of Death, make it impose "Weakness"

[Shougun]

I've never understood why Paladin has an invuln that doesn't touch their health but the others do (or at least Warrior is rooted in place) Paladin's Hallowed Ground sacrifices nothing -- not movement, not health, nothing. Why can't they all be that way?

Cooldown and flavor, also warrior needing to take care of their own health is like 'just keep killing stuff' lol. It's more like DRK got the bad stick, and then GNB a little bit. But warrior's shorter cooldown, absolutely excellent self heals that don't much sacrifice damage, and equal to paladin duration. Paladin's is the easiest but it's not simply the best one. Warrior's is pretty strong too. GNB is goofy but use-able... DRK is "hope your healer is ready, and you're not going to get to use that in solo play".

I don't really want them all to be the same, and I also don't think people should over idolize Paladin's because there are ways that Warrior's is just as good if not better (Paladin's is just the easiest to see "it just works" -Todd Howard). Certainly DRK could have some better ease of use though lol.

Also an aside, warrior's no longer roots them. Nearly half the cooldown, same duration, no root, doesn't save their health like Paladin's but warrior also doesn't have gaining health concerns either. With a healer paying attention (if the healer is gungho on healing, it would be wasted effort- making this skill a little bit more technical), or a Warrior using their skills well, warrior anit-buster is better than Paladin's. Paladin as generally their theme is just more stable / easier to work through, press defense button- the defense just happens. They're the rock while warrior might yoyo a bit more.

[ForteNightshade]

Ok but at least it won't KILL the Dark Knight, which is harsh.

Yes, but the purposed change is so minor that's more of an insult than anything else. If the devs are going to actually change LD, why not make it on par with the other tank invulns instead of keeping a penalty no other tank has to deal with?

I've never understood why Paladin has an invuln that doesn't touch their health but the others do (or at least Warrior is rooted in place) Paladin's Hallowed Ground sacrifices nothing -- not movement, not health, nothing. Why can't they all be that way?

The whole balancing factor is supposed to be their duration. Holmgang is actually better than Hallowed Ground despite what Yoshida says because you'll get multiple uses in a single fight. Case in point, P4Sp1, you can invuln every buster with a Warrior. This isn't possible with a PLD/GNB comp due to their invulns being on such long CDs. Living Dead technically functions the same way but has an enormous drawback that never made sense. Therefore, people don't want to use it, especially in dungeons or PF where you have no idea if the healers will actually heal you.

Making them all Hallowed Ground would be a little boring. At that point there is no flavor.

[SenorPatty]

I've never understood why Paladin has an invuln that doesn't touch their health but the others do (or at least Warrior is rooted in place) Paladin's Hallowed Ground sacrifices nothing -- not movement, not health, nothing. Why can't they all be that way?

I think it used to be to elicit in your mind the aesthetic of paladins being impenetrable fortresses so they gave them a skill to emulate that, just like living dead is supposed to conjure the idea that you're too angry to die (for awhile).

For warrior, I'm guessing it was to do that weird thing in duels where two fighters are chained/tied to another but they removed this in EW so you're more like a gladiator who's not letting their prey escape. Except the prey is not looking to escape and wants them kill/eat you. And keeping them in place from a distance for 10 secs seems redundant when you're to close in anyways...

[Deveryn]

I've never understood why Paladin has an invuln that doesn't touch their health but the others do (or at least Warrior is rooted in place) Paladin's Hallowed Ground sacrifices nothing -- not movement, not health, nothing. Why can't they all be that way?

It's just another thing to make them all different. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. Everyone still needs a good amount of healing if they're going to continue the fight or they will just die after the effect is up.

I look at this and I'm reminded of healers that die along with DPS when the second area-wide hits or when one is afflicted with Doom. I think back to SoS: EX where everyone had to be healed up and there was still one poor tank left below 100%. Considering how these mechanics are still peppered into fights, I don't see them making any kind of change to LD. It can all be remedied, if one would simply adjust.

[BokoToloko]

I'd rather they made Living Dead a personal tank LB3. Talking about a humongous amount of mitigation. The likes of a 90-99%.

And if that's not enough, just keep the current effect on top of it.

[KageTokage]

Something else that's always bugged me is that on top of having a shorter cooldown Holmgang also triggers faster then the other three abilities, meaning you seldom run into situations where you hit it then have it go on cooldown while still dying due to animation delay.

[Bloudmourne]

Don't know if anybody posted this as a changes for LD.

Living Dead
-Prevents any damage taken on activation (Like Hallowed Ground)
-Consumes all remaining MP and disables MP regeneration while active
-If The Blackest Night was used along with Living Dead. Grants Dark Arts and restores 3000MP when Living Dead expires

[Floortank]

I wonder why PLD can have invuln whenever they want unlike others?

It can't. It's on a longer cooldown than the other Invulns. You also have to be a dude with a sword and shield who casts a lot of flashy white magic spells. Those are the tradeoffs for having a better Invuln.

[DiaDeem]

Also change the name to "Living Weak"

... right?

[kaynide]

Yeah.. they really need to make all the invulnerabilities more similar in effect..like no bad points.

Since PLD gets a straight invuln, it could be you drop to 1 hp and can’t go below 1 hp… then you gain massive hp-steal with attacks, ideally healing yourself to max. That’s it, no negatives. Ideally popped when you are about to die anyway, hopefully ending with more hp than you started. Essentially holmgang+hp drain, whereas holmgang locks mobs in place. (Arguably Holmgang should do a little more too, like offer some defense to nearby party members)

Paladin as is, is just incredibly good with its unconditional invuln and clemency…the other tanks need stuff on par.