Toxic DPS

[Shurrikhan]

...I let him hold aggro and healer doesn't heal him....

An eye for an eye only blinds those that would blind you.

Well, that was quite the ironic way to end that post.


Yes, varying comfort levels are a thing, but let's not forget our context here: dozens of required dungeons into the story. If a player can't be bothered to learn how to tank by then, the least they can do is not gleefully PK their party out just to maintain some false sense of pride.

EDIT:

Of note, OP was asking how to deal with toxic players like that, so that's how I deal with them. I match their energy, that's all. Don't like it? Don't be it.

Alright, that makes sense, then. My apologies for connecting your response more to the recent posts than to the original intention of the thread.

[Ryaduera]

Well, that was quite the ironic way to end that post.


Yes, varying comfort levels are a thing, but let's not forget our context here: dozens of required dungeons into the story. If a player can't be bothered to learn how to tank by then, the least they can do is not gleefully PK their party out just to maintain some false sense of pride.

I fundamentally disagree with the sentiment of "Do not play the tank role if you are not going to tank to my standard" since that very statement oozes elitism which is a toxic and unhealthy way of playing a game that requires a community and entirely ignores the fact that GNB starts at 60 and that might be the tank of choice for some players, maybe they like guns and got to HW with a DPS, unlocked MCH and then GNB, but because they feel like enjoying something else, they shouldn't because they can't do it to the standard of the person that didn't even pick tank role. Some people aren't good at games... let them have fun even if it means taking it a little slow once in a while. Take away from my fun? I take away from your fun. Be polite and respectful? So will I.

Examples.
"Sorry, I was waiting for a couple cooldowns before pulling extras, I'll be doing full pulls when I have my abilities, just needed ~10s"

Response 1:
"Ok"
Response 2:
"My bad, I didn't mean to rush you."
Response 3:
"I don't care if you didn't have cooldowns, we can pull everything"

Response one is neutral and fine, from there just watch their behavior. No hard feelings, but they probably aren't enjoying their time, so I'll try to pick up the pace a little more.
Response two is polite and courteous, I would have nothing against this person.
Response three is terrible. I took aggro and handled it the first time, tried to communicate with them that I would rather have a slow and easy experience and they responded with demands. This is unacceptable and is essentially telling me they don't care if I have a good time or not, and so I will also choose to not care if they enjoy their time.

As a tank I haven't had this issue in a long time, but I have seen it before when I was a DPS or healer and no I did not enjoy going 1 group at a time, but I dealt with it because the tank was a good sport and I gave him some constructive criticism. The difference is demanding others bring themselves up to your standard to ruin their experience, or being patient and letting them have a good time and moving on to the next dungeon. Just... slow down and move on. Not everything is about you, such is the nature of multiplayer.

Of note, OP was asking how to deal with toxic players like that, so that's how I deal with them. I match their energy, that's all. Don't like it? Don't be it.

Trusts are an excellent option for people that are uncomfortable with playing the game at the level of the majority. Trying to force the dungeon to go at the pace you want it rather than the pace it's intended to be done at (note: wall to wall pulling is in fact what the game is designed around at this point) is in effect showing tremendous disrespect for the other participants in that dungeon.

"I won't have fun playing with you, so you shouldn't play with ANYBODY"

[Canadane]

Response 3:
"I don't care if you didn't have cooldowns, we can pull everything"

...

Response three is terrible.

It's actually really good advice, taken in a negative tone. You don't need multiple cooldowns on the ready. You generally cycle one after the other, and in some tanks cases you don't even touch them all even with a full wall-to-wall pull.

If you look at it more of a 'We can still do it, trust in yourself and your team' kinda way, they are encouraging you to continue without the need to wait for cooldowns, which as I said is how it's generally done so it's decent taking advice.

[Ryaduera]

It's actually really good advice, taken in a negative tone. You don't need multiple cooldowns on the ready. You generally cycle one after the other, and in some tanks cases you don't even touch them all even with a full wall-to-wall pull.

If you look at it more of a 'We can still do it, trust in yourself and your team' kinda way, they are encouraging you to continue without the need to wait for cooldowns, which as I said is how it's generally done so it's decent taking advice.

I know, but a newer player may not, and tone is what the problem actually is, that's my entire point. The message received is significantly more important than the message delivered. The issue at hand is attitude and toxicity, not tanking and managing cooldowns. You should not have a bad attitude just because someone isn't up to your standards, it's just that simple. Don't be a dick just because your comfort zone is beyond someone elses. See this line.

Of note, OP was asking how to deal with toxic players like that, so that's how I deal with them. I match their energy, that's all. Don't like it? Don't be it.

[Sacred-Oblivion]

If not, how do you tank mains go about dealing with it?

I switch to a single target rotation for the pull I'm currently tanking and wait for the DPS to die before picking up their pull.

[Absimiliard]

Extra points for Y'shtola being the black mage of the of the group. If any of them are going to pull off ridiculous AoE numbers, you'd think it would be the designated AoE bombardment job. But nope, Urianger for the win. He's great right up until he decides not to heal for a full 30 seconds and you're not playing literally any tank other than DRK.

[Absimiliard]

[Ryaduera]

The thing that gets me about this thread is that the problem asked about wasn't even DPS pulling more than the tank was comfortable with, it was about them being toxic about it, and then people responded saying if the tank wasn't up to their personal standards they would be toxic about it. The tanks will be far more receptive of your request if you're just, like... nice. Don't serve what you can't eat, if you be a dick to the tank they'll probably do it back.

[Lyth]

I'm not a fan of the 'You pull you tank mentality' - it's mostly exercised by tanks who have just barely enough experience to have an ego, and not nearly enough to be aware of their own shortcomings. That being said, it's still a team game, and you always have to adjust your expectations based on what happens in the run. Sometimes you can tell in advance that with the current group, a certain pull will result in a wipe without adjustments being made (split pulls, LB, focusing a specific target first, etc). You're better off anticipating and pre-empting these issues rather than expecting the run to automatically play out the way that it usually does.

You're not going to change duty finder, and you're unlikely to see the same people again. Your goal should always be to clear the run as efficiently as possible from your own end. While I can see why it was suggested, Absimiliard's suggestion is a unilaterally mean-spirited one. Don't abuse the vote kick system. It puts you on the same level as the people you think you're out to punish.

[Liam_Harper]

If not, how do you tank mains go about dealing with it?

I don't tank in dungeons. Plenty of alternate paths to max level.

I'm fine trying big pulls and agree with others that "you pull you tank" is a bad mentality, but even then it's never enough. Tanks are basically the group slave. It's considered acceptable to sprint into mobs, rescue the tank into mobs, for healers to get mad if they want smaller pulls, for groups to get mad if the big pull wasn't big enough, to blame the tank if they pull big and die.

I just skipped dungeons and stick to raids. After all the mindset is, "if you can't handle abuse, don't join as tank", so I don't. They can enjoy the queues.