Critique of Endwalker Characters

[KizuyaKatogami]

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You do have me quite curious. At what point do you think would have been a good place for a main character death if an apocalypse that once decimated the entire planet isn’t one? And fights against the unsundered aren’t one as well.

[Theodric]

Another factor to consider is that, for those of us who have been playing since ARR and HW...the game's mature tone and realistic consequences is in some cases what sold us on the experience rather than 'comfort characters' and zero stake conflicts.

The model of sympathetic antagonists losing absolutely everything because they were forced into an impossible situation through no fault of their own even as the protagonists proclaim that they're so hard done by because some weird looking Roegadyn with a half-shaved head died back in ARR is wearing thin.

JRPG's never used to be afraid to be bold and daring, so I think that it is a genuine shame that the genre is now plagued by excessive fanservice based around predictable and stale 'comfort characters'.

[NanaWiloh]

You do have me quite curious. At what point do you think would have been a good place for a main character death if an apocalypse that once decimated the entire planet isn’t one? And fights against the unsundered aren’t one as well.

I am fully on board with the Wol dying. I want to see us pull a Kratos, get killed fight our way back to life pissed off and ready to make heads roll!! *Rawr*

[Lauront]

Estinien had an incredible character developement. He was vengeful, taciturn and reserved at first, got into plenty of arguments with Ysayle and if not for the company of the WoL and Alphinaud, they would've tried to kill each other and he always came across as so focused on revenge and bloodshed that he didn't live; as if he only lived for killing Nidhogg and when he did, he might as well just die. Then he gradually learned there is a different side to this war, saw something akin to family in Alphinaud again and grudgingly worked with his former enemy that was responsible for killing many of his countrymen and ultimately respected her to the point of visiting Azys Ly to pay his respects to her.
His thirst for revenge got him turned into Nidhoggs host. He attacked his own city, killed his own countrymen and was willing to kill himself to end it. And after that he took it as a second chance, helped the WoL from the shadows, traveled the world to keep an eye of things, forged bonds with dragons and whenever he appeared he seemed to have lightened up a bit, cared for Alphinaud more openly, showed a sense of humor. He stood his ground when he disagreed with something or just took matters into his own hands because he simply isn't the type for lengthy diplomatic sessions. He had some views others disagreed with and it was fine, he had some problematic traits and it was also fine.

The bit about the character conflict can't be over-stated, IMO. Some of the most fun encounters I had in older RPGs, like Baldur's Gate 2, was trying to manage the NPC disagreements, which would sometimes result in them fighting to the death or taking your leave of the party. These aren't the only ways to resolve such conflicts, and it's obviously not feasible to the same extent in an MMO like this one, but it helped highlight the strength of their convictions and differences in these. The closest they came in FF14 is indeed Estinien and Ysayle and, although he never joined the party, Emet-Selch following your party around on the First. This helped show more facets of the characters and thus avoided reducing them to mere sounding boards for certain viewpoints.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I am fully on board with the Wol dying. I want to see us pull a Kratos, get killed fight our way back to life pissed off and ready to make heads roll!! *Rawr*

Tbh…i feel as though either that or a scion dying was originally planned. Especially with Zenos in the final ShB patch saying “You will come to me full of rage…” But then that is just completely dropped and never mentioned in EW. As well as the missing fandaniel line in the trailer of “Destroy them, destroy them all.” Too many things cut and missing that don’t make sense.

[TaleraRistain]

Because their stories are over and yes, in a story where you're killing thousands of nameless enemies, to be taken seriously your side needs to take losses as well. If everyone is walking around with impenetrable plot armor we may as well play Disney Online because no matter how dire the situation there is zero tension.

But I know there is a contingent who thinks none of the characters they like should ever die and they try to setup reductionist gotcha arguments to support that, usually by asking disingenuous questions.

There are plenty of instances especially in the JRPG genre where the story has plenty of tension and depth and the main cast doesn't die. Previous Final Fantasy games and the JRPG classic that is widely considered a masterpiece Xenogears come to mind.

[KizuyaKatogami]

There are plenty of instances especially in the JRPG genre where the story has plenty of tension and depth and the main cast doesn't die. Previous Final Fantasy games and the JRPG classic that is widely considered a masterpiece Xenogears come to mind.

Many ff games have main character deaths though, i’m not sure why this is often stated not to be the case. Ff2,4,5,6,7,10,12,13 to name a few

[Silvarer]

Imo killing off characters because their stories are "over" is not good storytelling a lot of the time. Doesn't mean that it can't be done well at all, it certainly can, but there seem to be too many writers out there who do it just because they can't think of anything else to do with a character and that's just rather weak. I would rather see characters continue to live and find happiness andore opportunities for personal growth than just arbitrarily cut all that short because their "done".

[aveyond-dreams]

You don't need to kill off characters to make them interesting-but after 8 years of this ridiculous amount of plot armor and fakeouts people are just out of patience. Doesn't matter how, just get the yes-men off the screen.

Lackluster backstories combined with nonexistent goals gives me hardly any reason to root for any of the scions besides Estinien. After everything characters like him and Ysayle had been through, why should I care about Urianger and how he was bullied for reading books? Top it all off with their barely-present personality traits and overt fanservice "slice of life!" scenes just wears my patience down further.

Remember when Celes attempted suicide and jumped off a cliff into the ocean in what was one of the most beautiful and dramatic scenes in the entire FF series? Or when Garnet cast down her tiara as she ran to embrace Zidane in a genuine display of emotion? The numerous times when Zidane and Steiner went at it with each other? Lightning punching Snow in the face in response to one of his long-winded "hero!" speeches? Even Jack from Stranger of Paradise is more interesting, outright rejecting the stereotypical fantasy nonsense going on around him because he just wants to kill Chaos and probably go out for a smoke.

Half these scenes I mentioned above would be too problematic or traumatic for some fans of this game to handle, it seems. Imagine the reaction twitter would have if we ever saw a character with Zidane's personality re-emerge in the series. Instead we get G'raha Tia and the fanclub go out for hamburgers: the expansion! Can't wait to go get sushi or something with Thancred in 6.1, hopefully the story of Myths of the Realm will make up for the lack of anything interesting going on with the main cast these days. The writers need to ask themselves:

What is this character's main goal?
What is this character's motivation to achieve this goal?
Who does this character get along with and who do they dislike?

If the answers to these questions are nebulous ideals, "supporting my friends," and getting along with just about everyone under the sun who isn't an Ascian or Garlean then respectfully there needs to be some reconsideration in how to handle these characters moving forward. Add in the building blocks that are missing, or let them take an extended vacation.

[TaleraRistain]

Many ff games have main character deaths though, i’m not sure why this is often stated not to be the case. Ff2,4,5,6,7,10,12,13 to name a few

Depends on your definition of main character. Many of the games you mentioned have guest or side characters die. Minwu, Josef and Ricard were not the main party. None of the main party in 6 die unless you leave Shadow behind but I believe I read somewhere the creator's canon version is waiting for him and he survives. Reddas was a guest character. X and XIII if taken alone though even Fang and Vanille didn't die but turned to crystal and we know characters can be restored from that.

Now that's not to say that side character deaths can't be impactful. I often see a lot of complaints that only side characters die in XIV and we weren't connected to them so it's meaningless. I personally have always remembered the deaths of Josef and General Leo, even if they are side characters and I find plenty of the XIV deaths impactful because I truly liked those people.