Critique of Endwalker Characters

[NanaWiloh]

Many ff games have main character deaths though, i’m not sure why this is often stated not to be the case. Ff2,4,5,6,7,10,12,13 to name a few

All this death talk, I like the way tales of berseria ends. Velvet embracing her brother in a endless cycle of life and death, then sealing herself and him away while locked togather. A sacrifice for her and a display of mercy to her brother.

[xenahawk]

Um yshtola brings the sas plain and simple. Pretty much all her speeches i can think of never disappointed. From her belittling the leader of the tribes in the steps in stormblood to sending my toon to bed without dinner in shadowbringers and cant be certain but pretty sure she was gonna put me down like a rabit dog too but thats yshtola so im fine with that . Point being she like all the other scions have had some pretty memorable moments. I for the most part felt that the more personal cutscenes in the storytelling were the best part from the get together in the room and the guest to your room. But i guess to each their own for what a person likes.

[Theodric]

Y'shtola insulting Magnai felt out of character to me given her insistence on respecting the culture and customs of the aggressive Beast Tribes back in the days of ARR. Though the Scions venturing into territory that is not theirs to claim and acting as if they own the place and know what is best is, sadly, nothing new.

For all the screeching and drooling they indulged in over Garlean conscription they sure did overlook Hien effectively tricking the Xaela into fighting a war that did not concern them. Then again, the protagonists in this game have never had any fixed moral compass or stable 'themes' I suppose...

[Rilifane]

Y'shtola insulting Magnai felt out of character to me given her insistence on respecting the culture and customs of the aggressive Beast Tribes back in the days of ARR. Though the Scions venturing into territory that is not theirs to claim and acting as if they own the place and know what is best is, sadly, nothing new.

For all the screeching and drooling they indulged in over Garlean conscription they sure did overlook Hien effectively tricking the Xaela into fighting a war that did not concern them. Then again, the protagonists in this game have never had any fixed moral compass or stable 'themes' I suppose...

That's one of the many things that made Hien an interesting character for me: he was willing to go for morally questionable methods and not just that, he was able to sell it in a way that nobody thought less of him for doing it. He didn't side with the Mol out of kindness of his heart or anything, it was all calculated so he (or the WoL) could take a clear leader position and make sure the tribes fight in a war not their own. As cute as it was seeing him chase sheeps, it was also just a tool to acquire information that he could use against the tribes he's planning to enlist.
Also, flooding Doma Castle, drowing most of the soldiers their so they die a gruesome death and are out of his hair? Not honorable considering the trio are all warriors that would want to die on the battlefield if they have to.
He had an honorable side, a boyish side but he also definitely had a very cold, calculating side and the mix of it made it interesting.
Why force people into doing something when you can charm them into doing it?

The bit about the character conflict can't be over-stated, IMO. Some of the most fun encounters I had in older RPGs, like Baldur's Gate 2, was trying to manage the NPC disagreements, which would sometimes result in them fighting to the death or taking your leave of the party. These aren't the only ways to resolve such conflicts, and it's obviously not feasible to the same extent in an MMO like this one, but it helped highlight the strength of their convictions and differences in these. The closest they came in FF14 is indeed Estinien and Ysayle and, although he never joined the party, Emet-Selch following your party around on the First. This helped show more facets of the characters and thus avoided reducing them to mere sounding boards for certain viewpoints.

The party dynamic in BG2 (and similiar games like Divinity series) made them really memorable when it came to characters. Even if both characters were generally good, like Jaheira and Anomen... oh boy, could they argue. It wasn't just harmless banter, it was a very real conflict over how to solve certain quests and which approach to take with something and their personalities and ideals clashed ina very believable way.
Just because the Scions are not real party members shouldn't exclude them from having real conflicts. They're still people and not some picture perfect good guys on moral high ground. Scion or not, everyone has personal bonds, affiliations and priorities. It's just not believable that they woke up one morning years ago and said "Yup, world peace above all, no personal goals from me!".

[Theodric]

That's one of the many things that made Hien an interesting character for me: he was willing to go for morally questionable methods and not just that, he was able to sell it in a way that nobody thought less of him for doing it. He didn't side with the Mol out of kindness of his heart or anything, it was all calculated so he (or the WoL) could take a clear leader position and make sure the tribes fight in a war not their own. As cute as it was seeing him chase sheeps, it was also just a tool to acquire information that he could use against the tribes he's planning to enlist.
Also, flooding Doma Castle, drowing most of the soldiers their so they die a gruesome death and are out of his hair? Not honorable considering the trio are all warriors that would want to die on the battlefield if they have to.
He had an honorable side, a boyish side but he also definitely had a very cold, calculating side and the mix of it made it interesting.
Why force people into doing something when you can charm them into doing it?

Yeah, he's my favourite of the surviving leader figures in the game for those reasons. He feels flawed and properly fleshed out. He isn't perfect, nor does he pretend to be - but ultimately everything he does is for the benefit of his people first and foremost. I liked Varis for the same reasons. The Archbishop of Ishgard, too, albeit not to the same extent.

I want more characters like Hien who have their own agenda and aren't constantly at risk of being forced to change to suit the misguided ideals of Alphinaud. MMO's by their very nature are designed to appeal to a broad variety of players. It's well past time that the characters themselves reflected that when it comes to their opinions, ideals and personalities.

I am fiercely opposed to the idea that everybody has to think, feel and act a certain way be it in reality or a fictional setting. Conflict is both necessary and interesting but the game needs to cease pretending as if only one particular set of ideals are of value or acceptable. That isn't the case. Sometimes people align with one another due to shared goals. Sometimes they come in conflict with one another over their ideals. Though the game's insistence of, at every turn, pretending as if everybody has to concede and do things the way that the Scions desire is growing pretty tiresome. Certainly, if given the choice to give my character more agency he wouldn't be enforcing regime changes and would instead be eager to find a third path forward in almost every situation.

[Remish]

Sometimes the characters surviving over dying could be as simple as because the CEO or boardroom people said to keep them alive for merchandise reasons. I could fully believe that some of the cast was written to die and that some supervisor was like, "but that would hurt our merchandise sales". Sometimes, the situation for story weirdness is as simple as that. The companies are always willing to make the story janky if it makes them more money in other departments. I think we sometimes forgot that businesses such as SE will do this. Products don't usually sell as well if the character is dead. Just how marketing works.

[NanaWiloh]

Zidane's plot armor was justifiable because we spent the entire game with him as an active protagonist with a distinct personality, just as flawed as it was endearing, and one that would be impossible to make the star of a video game by today's moral standards. The same cannot be said for Y'shtola and the few and far between sassy moments she has or the fact that Thancred's story finished in Shadowbringers and is hanging out as the party appendix these days.

I see Thancred leaving us at some point. If they found a way to travel to the first again safely. No question Thancred would likely jump on the chance. There are other characters who are good fighters and infiltrators that could take his place.

[Izar_Chillen]

I see Thancred leaving us at some point. If they found a way to travel to the first again safely. No question Thancred would likely jump on the chance. There are other characters who are good fighters and infiltrators that could take his place.

I think so too

I wonder if the traversal to the first again will play a role in removing , but not killing some of the Scions . Perhaps they may plan a moment in a future MSQ quest chain that we may discover a way to send people across the traverse with their bodies like our WoL can do and that once the group learn this Thancred already yearning to be back on the first to raise and support his "daughter" because there isnt much for him on the source anymore volunteers to try it, or maybe even Shtola yearns to be back with her tribe she was with for "in her spiritual form", five years as she was mother bear there and she may actually love Runar.

[Rilifane]

In the end, everybody does what they think is best and there is no universal "best" or even "good".
The quote "Everybody is a hero in their own story" is true. Varis thought he was doing what was best. Thordan thought he was doing what was best. The city leaders. The Scions. Sharlayan scholars.
Everyone can only act to the best of their own knowledge and belief and from their perspective, their actions were understandable and good according to their own priorities and goals. Were they good? Good according to whom? The Scions are not good according to several factions but the story bends over backwards to always make them look good and their ideals as superior and that makes them incredibly bland.
The whole story around Ysayle, Estinien and the Dragonsong War made what we did, as the WoL, questionable because we were just as guilty of killing people under false assumptions as everyone around us and we helped to shake the foundation of a whole nation in too short of a time, leading to even more conflict and deaths. We weren't liked and worshipped by everyone and that was good.
Artoirel basically wanted us dead at first for stealing his spotlight. Not excplicitely but hoping the WoL would fail when sending them out into a battle alone has a pretty clear outcome: you fail in a battle, you die. Tataru and Alphinaud were accused of heresy for sniffing around and it was quite clear that someone else asking the same questions wouldn't have been treated the same way but they were outsiders and unbelievers.
HW was riddled with the type of conflict between characters and in the story itself that made it a very compelling expansion for me and all that without the constant presence of the Scions.
I would've loved to see more of that.

[Anienai]

Winning post

I agree with every word you typed.

10/10