Is Everyone Playing BLM wrong?

[Xander_Diabolos]

So I am told over and over that I am doing things wrong as Black Mage, but based on my understanding on how things work my way actually works better.

Other people: Fire III, Fire IV x2, Triple Cast, Fire IV x2, Despair, Blizzard III, Blizzard IV, Thunder III, repeat
10 spells
Fire boosted potency: 310, 310, 310, 310, 340 = 1,580*1.2*1.3*1.8 = 4,437
Other potency: 260 (first Fire III not boosted), 260, 310 = 830*1.2*1.3 = 1,295
5,732 effective potency per rotation

Me: Fire III, Fire IV x2, Fire III, Fire IV x3, Despair, Transpose, Xenoglossy(otherwise Blizzard IV if no Polyglot and late tick on mana), Blizzard IV, Thunder III, repeat
11 spells
Fire boosted potency: 310, 310, 260, 310, 310, 310, 340 = 2,150*1.2*1.3*1.8 = 6,037
Other potency: 260 (first Fire III not boosted), 310, 310 = 880*1.2*1.3 = 1,373
7,410 effective potency per rotation

(1.2*=enochian, 1.3*=maim and mend, 1.8*=astral fire boost)

Granted spell speed can play a factor. If you have enough spell speed you might be able to get a fifth fire IV in which would put total fire damage up to 1,890 vs and match my 11 spells. Even then it is still 1890 vs 2150 and you would have to build spell speed vs critical hit/determination/direct hit. Also other people's combo requires using Triple Cast to get everything off in time or remove a Fire IV. Mine has 7-8 seconds after first Fire IVs are done so you can move/interrupt if you need to and save Triple Cast for when you need it. Also when do you use Xenoglossy in most people's rotations? Xenoglossy isn't fire damage so it doesn't get the 80% boost from Astral Fire... so why cast it in your fire rotation?

Also I know most people don't use Transpose, but 1 Umbral Ice is enough to fill my MP over 3 casts (Xenoglossy, Blizzard IV, Thunder III usually) so I don't need Umbral Ice 3 (This is why I skip Blizzard III). Transpose is better in my opinion since it isn't on global cooldown. You can start casting right away after using it. You might say "But if you just did Despair you don't have the MP for Blizzard III". You are right... but it also depends on when your MP ticks. If it ticks right after you transpose you can get it off right away. If not I also usually have a Xenoglossy I can use which doesn't cost MP. There is some thinking in the situation involved.

Side note... why I do not Fire IV 3 times after the first Fire III. You are trying to have your second Fire III hit the last Umbral Heart. This way you are at 1600 mp when you use Despair the last time. Otherwise it would be Fire III, Fire IV x3, Fire III, Fire IV, Despair without Fire III's 2k discounted mana from Umbral Heart.

Also I know you can Manafont after Despair to get another Fire IV and Despair in afterwards, but you can do that regardless of the combo. With Manafont being on a 2 minute cooldown you can't do this every time as well.

[Xander_Diabolos]

Side note: I am 85 right now. I imagine the following changes as I get to 90.

Amplifier: Increases chances I get to Xenoglossy when I want to.
Paradox: Fire III, Fire IV x3, Paradox, Fire IV x3, Despair, Transpose, Xenoglossy(otherwise Paradox if no Polyglot), Blizzard IV, Thunder III, repeat

Fire III's potency is 260*1.8=468 for the second Fire III so Paradox at 500 unaspected is better to refresh duration of Astral Fire.

Fire IV's potency is still 310*1.8=558 which is higher than 500 so still should be trying to do as many Fire IV as possible.

Paradox's 0 mp cost makes it better than Blizzard IV to follow Despair, but still wanna cast it once for 3 Umbral Hearts.

Paradox also is a good alternative to Scathe due to it's 0 casting time when umbral ice (if need to move and triple cast is down). Transpose and then Paradox spam until you can stay still again.

[Tsunari96]

Side note: I am 85 right now. I imagine the following changes as I get to 90.

Amplifier: Increases chances I get to Xenoglossy when I want to.
Paradox: Fire III, Fire IV x3, Paradox, Fire IV x3, Despair, Transpose, Xenoglossy(otherwise Paradox if no Polyglot), Blizzard IV, Thunder III, repeat

Fire III's potency is 260*1.8=468 for the second Fire III so Paradox at 500 unaspected is better to refresh duration of Astral Fire.

Fire IV's potency is still 310*1.8=558 which is higher than 500 so still should be trying to do as many Fire IV as possible.

Paradox's 0 mp cost makes it better than Blizzard IV to follow Despair, but still wanna cast it once for 3 Umbral Hearts.

Paradox also is a good alternative to Scathe due to it's 0 casting time when umbral ice (if need to move and triple cast is down). Transpose and then Paradox spam until you can stay still again.

Not sure I would use your level 90 rotation either.

EDIT:
Some more error correct even though it has a lot of scuffed math :3

Before you're gonna say "oh but my rotation flexes Xenoglossy instead of paradox"

[Xander_Diabolos]

Not sure I would use your level 90 rotation either.

EDIT:
Some more error correct even though it has a lot of scuffed math :3

Before you're gonna say "oh but my rotation flexes Xenoglossy instead of paradox"

I just noticed something... Is the reason people do Blizzard III to save 1 second on Fire III cast to start the rotation again? Was looking at the first Fire III of the rotation on both and it got confusing on different PPS until I looked up Umbral Ice again. I could use swift cast to get rid of that annoying Fire III cast timer instead of Blizzard III. If you do look after Despair Left (318.5) vs Right (306.2) at 12.3 difference and then again at the end (299.8) vs (293.5) there is only 6.3 difference. So it made up some damage at the end. By removing Blizzard III still has higher DPS as long as you can remove the initial Fire III casting time issue (swiftcast or triple cast).

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...J2Sykbrw/edit#
I did find some stuff in here that flexes "Sharpcast Paradox" that essentially does the same thing as Blizzard III as well in terms putting Fire III at 2.5 seconds by proc'ing Firestarter. Since this can be done from Astral Fire I you could technically "Transpose, Sharpcast, Paradox, Fire III" vs doing Blizzard III (500 potency paradox vs 260 Blizzard III). Then do transpose again after Despair to get MP back while doing Thunder/Xenoglossy.

Seems like it is a better rotation to remove Blizzard III due to its low PPS, but I think I went the wrong way to do it and sacrificed the Fire III casting time when trying to and potentially hurt my damage over time without realizing it.
Will have to do some looking into Sharpcast Thunderstorm to make sure I don't loose too much from that by doing "Transpose Sharpcast Paradox".

[Tsunari96]

I just noticed something... Is the reason people do Blizzard III to save 1 second on Fire III cast to start the rotation again?

This chart is scuffed but enough to explain what's happening OUTSIDE of simple chain of GCD casting. When the BLM has 3 stacks of one element, the next opposite element spell has significantly less cast time. and this exact 1 second cast allows BLM to minimize the loss of DPS caused by what's commonly known as "GCD clip."

On the left chart, it shows FIII recast time is 2.33s. However, the actual cast time is 1.69s because having 3 umbral stack significantly reduces the time you spend on casting. In other words, you would only spend 1.69s to cast a spell and have 0.64s of "free time" until you can cast next spell. This little wiggle room allows BLM to have a guaranteed slot to use an OGCD.

On the right chart, which is your rotation, does exactly opposite because default FIII cast time is 3.26s while your recast time is 2.33s. This means you're spending longer time casting FIII than you should. That's right, you're spending 0.93s longer. even if you could have casted FIV.



This means every 2~3 rotations repeated, you lost a cast of FIV and this is accumulative. By the nature of BLM, this is heavily consequential and the gap between standard opener and your proposed opener widens more and more.

This gap widens even more when you want to "weave in" OGCD like triple cast. In a super simplified manner, when considering this...



As you can see this in image, you are stuck at Triplecast animation and its delay causes you to wait even longer until you can cast FIV. Unlike that, the 1.69s FIII allows you to use Triplecast with minimized delay to the point it can be negligible.

I did find some stuff in here that flexes "Sharpcast Paradox" that essentially does the same thing as Blizzard III as well in terms putting Fire III at 2.5 seconds by proc'ing Firestarter. Since this can be done from Astral Fire I you could technically "Transpose, Sharpcast, Paradox, Fire III" vs doing Blizzard III (500 potency paradox vs 260 Blizzard III). Then do transpose again after Despair to get MP back while doing Thunder/Xenoglossy.

It doesn't work as nicely as you think because, once again, your rotation does not have any room to use OGCD without forcing a delay due to OGCD animation lock. Of course, you can use xenoglossy or procced Thunder/FIII to weave an OGCD but you must understand that standard opener can do that as well. It's like comparing a gaining an advantage vs already having an advantage AND gain another. it's 0/+1 vs +1/+1.

[SeiyaSoiya]

oh hey it's you again
you're still not level 90
if you want to start a crusade against all the people who hurt your feelings by telling you you're not ready to comment or criticize BLM due to your low level, you will still need to level to 90 and fully understand the class before you can.

[BaconBits]

All this text just to prove you still have no idea how to play BLM.

[Xander_Diabolos]

All this text just to prove you still have no idea how to play BLM.

What is incorrect about what I said?

[Xander_Diabolos]

oh hey it's you again
you're still not level 90
if you want to start a crusade against all the people who hurt your feelings by telling you you're not ready to comment or criticize BLM due to your low level, you will still need to level to 90 and fully understand the class before you can.

I gave a reason why I think my rotation does 29% more damage (7410/5732) can you please provide a reason you believe that it is false?
My feelings aren't hurt. I simply don't understand why they wouldn't do a rotation that mathematically does more damage.

I have a full time job so I don't play as often as some people which is why I am asking on a forum for someone to correct me in a useful manner.

[Chopstix]

oh hey it's you again
you're still not level 90

this is gold, thanks for making my day :P

yes OP pls lvl cap b4 u formulate any opinions, i seriously doubt that all the number crunchers that this game has have overlooked something u did not

there r niche optimal rotations for the in between levels (81-89 in ur example), like im pretty sure a lvl72 warrior would actually want to do CDH nascent chaos even on one target as opposed to just a simple fell cleave, this most certainly does not apply at 80+