Is Everyone Playing BLM wrong?

[Aikaal]

Why are you saying anything if you're not capped at 90. The whole reason why Fire IV was buffed to 310 is because Paradox was too close of Fire IV DPS and Paradox Mage became a thing. Paradox Mage is a meme that shouldn't exist like Dragon Kick spam Monk right now.

You shouldn't calc things as pure potency but the potency per second.

310 *1.8 from Astral Fire is 558 Potency for 2.8s. 199.28 PPS.
500 Potency from Paradox in a 2.5s is 200 PPS.

With BiS Spellspeed
558 Potency for Fire IV in 2.47s = 225.91 PPS
500 Potency from Paradox under 2.2s is 227.27 PPS

Back in ShB, I recalled people skipping Blizzard IV because Fire I wasn't great but because it turns into a spell that deals better damage than Fire IV in which, can be used in both your form, you probably should stick to use Fire I until you're level 90.

[Xander_Diabolos]

Why are you saying anything if you're not capped at 90. The whole reason why Fire IV was buffed to 310 is because Paradox was too close of Fire IV DPS and Paradox Mage became a thing. Paradox Mage is a meme that shouldn't exist like Dragon Kick spam Monk right now.

You shouldn't calc things as pure potency but the potency per second.

310 *1.8 from Astral Fire is 558 Potency for 2.8s. 199.28 PPS.
500 Potency from Paradox in a 2.5s is 200 PPS.

With BiS Spellspeed
558 Potency for Fire IV in 2.47s = 225.91 PPS
500 Potency from Paradox under 2.2s is 227.27 PPS

Back in ShB, I recalled people skipping Blizzard IV because Fire I wasn't great but because it turns into a spell that deals better damage than Fire IV in which, can be used in both your form, you probably should stick to use Fire I until you're level 90.

Astral Fire isn't a spell... Fire IV is, but I know what you mean.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...J2Sykbrw/edit#
I found a good source for PPS.

High level BLM concepts has... (I think they added in casting frames)
Xenoglossy = 304 PPS
Despair = 197.42 PPS
Fire IV (AF) = 192.41 PPS
Paradox (AF) = 192.31 PPS
Fire III (AF3) = 187.2 PPS
Fire = 119.23 PPS
Fire III (UI3) = 72.8 PPS
Blizzard III (AF3) = 72.8 PPS
I can see potential Fire to refresh AF3 if it means I get another Fire IV in.

Cast Order: Fire III, Fire IV, Fire IV, Fire III, Fire IV, Fire IV, Fire IV, Despair
Total Potency: 4130
Total Time: 20.5
201 PPS

Cast Order: Fire III, Fire IV, Fire IV, Fire IV, Fire, Fire IV, Fire IV, Fire IV, Despair
Total Potency: 4544
Total Time: 22.3
203 PPS

With Fire III having higher PPS than Fire... I figured it would be better, but it does appear to be slightly higher with fire due to the additional MP to cast another Fire IV before refreshing astral fire. The reason I am looking into it before I am 90 is so I know how to do things when I am 90.

I do still like my Transpose vs Blizzard III idea since Transpose is still off global cooldown and only 72.8 PPS

[Gruntler]

So I am told over and over that I am doing things wrong as Black Mage, but based on my understanding on how things work my way actually works better.

Other people: Fire III, Fire IV x2, Triple Cast, Fire IV x2, Despair, Blizzard III, Blizzard IV, Thunder III, repeat

Well there's you're problem, that's not how the job is actually played. If you're comparing your crap rotation to a crap rotation (and holy crap your assumptions are offbase) you won't come out with valid results.

First there's no mention of time in your analysis, and that means you're missing the 'ps' part of 'dps.'

So here's a better example of where you go wrong. A Caveat for the third rotation: That's just me making something off the top of my head, the no-brain rotation, the 'I don't play this job but this seems legitimate' rotation, the 'I'm sure BLMs will go on into detail about better practices but this is fine enough to make my point' rotation.



Notice I'm neglecting the prepull blizzard III->Blizzard IV to start things off to get your three umbral hearts. That's common to all three, won't make a difference. I'm also not including Magick and Mend or Enochian because that's a common multiplier and adding it won't help with comparisons anyways. Also not weighing in with the Ice phase Paradox, cause that's like... not salient to the core points I need to make.

In almost the same time as you I've gotten in 1300 more potency than you. So that's gains. But to make matters worse, because you take 4.9 more seconds to get through your rotation than the 'bad strawman' rotation you're trying to compare to, while you get in more potency overall, your potency per second is actually 4 pps less than the rotation you're trying to say is worse! You're actually doing worse than the bad strawman rotation you're trying to present!

Now, before Paradox, in the third rotation you'd replace the Paradox with Fire I and that'd reduce the potency by 176 and the overall pps by around 6, but that's still WAYYYYYYYYY the hell ahead of what you've presented. So this isn't even a 'your rotation needs to be level 90 to git gud' issue it's 'your rotation isn't gud on its face' issue.

And here's the worst part: I don't think my rotation is optimal. It's hastily thrown together, has nothing close to optimization tricks or any of the voodoo BLM optimizers do or anything. I'm not at all knowledgeable in that regard.

But holy crap it takes less than 30 seconds to cobble together a rotation better than.... this display.

[Mikey_R]

I skimmed so I do not know if it was mentioned, however,

Going Despair > Transpose > Paradox > Blizzard 4 only puts you in UI2, not UI3, so you would need to cast Blizzard or Blizzard 3 to get to UI3 so that when you swap to AF, you will gain the Paradox Stack. If you have to use a GCD to get to UI, why not just Blizzard 3 at the start.

[Hasrat]

I stopped reading when they suggested most of us were only casting 4 Fire IVs in our rotation.

[MilkieTea]

[Picker]

No your playing blm wrong lol

[Absimiliard]

To quote a doctor I know,

[Xander_Diabolos]

Hey all,

Thanks for any helpful info. I think maybe the title was too insulting and caused people to get defensive. Hit 90 yesterday and this is what I tested out based on the results of the discussion. Opener doesn't look too different from most. Didn't include INT drink since I play too casually to get into high end raids. I did regret putting Blizzard III in opener, but it was the only way to get Paradox(Firestarter) vs Fire after the opener and reduce Fire III's casting. (I could also have included sharpcast Fire in the opener to get it, but would prefer not to do that either since you don't have enough mana to use it effectively without Umbral hearts)

Opener:
Fire III, Thunder III, Triplecast, Fire IV, Ley Lines, Fire IV, Amplifier, Fire IV, Swiftcast, Fire IV, Triplecast, Despair, Manafont, Fire IV, Despair, Blizzard III, Xenoglossy, Blizzard IV, Thunder III

After the opener I sharpcast Paradox to make the next Fire III instant cast which allows you to weave in triple cast/amplifier/leylines/manafont similar to how it was done in opener 120 seconds after. I might have to add a little more spell speed as I was sometimes having issues with Firestarter wearing off (30 seconds after Paradox) before I got back to my Fire III (especially if I had to Xenoglossy twice to wait for mana before insta-casting Fire III again).

After Opener:
Fire III, Fire IV x3, Sharpcast, Paradox, Fire IV x3, Despair, Transpose, Xenoglossy (once or twice depending on mp ticks), Blizzard IV, Thunder III
Still debating on Transposing after Thunder III to get more damage on Fire III which is instant cast and 0 mp regardless.

Benefits: Drop the low PPS Blizzard III after opener, have a spot to cast Xenoglossy every 30 seconds, Fire III becomes instant speed meaning you can move while casting it and don't have to clip to triplecast after the opener.

Negatives: Clipping Transpose, Clipping Sharpcast (when not doing triplecast), Using Sharpcast on Paradox means you can't Sharpcast Thunder III and guarantee to not hardcast it (I figure with 10 ticks and 10% chance each tick... most of the time you will not need to anyway), You lose out on a second Paradox by not casting Blizzard III (requires 3 Umbral hearts and Umbral ice), Blizzard IV is still low PPS but it has to happen in order to get Umbral hearts for longer Astral Fire phase.

[Hasrat]

Fire III, Thunder III, Triplecast, Fire IV, Ley Lines, F...

Why are you waiting so long to get Ley Lines down?

Fire III, Fire IV x3, Sharpcast, Paradox, Fire IV x3, Despair, Transpose, X....

Oh, you're still using Transpose.