FF14 and toxic positivity

[Illmaeran]

I am so sorry to hear that you had experienced cancer. I really hope you are all okay now as I know how debilitating that can be.

Thank you for that, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I got incredibly lucky and got the best of a very bad situation; a number of people on my floor who got the same regimen I did died after treatment. It worked out that surgical removal did the trick so I'm still around today to play the game! If surgery hadn't been possible I'd be in the Lifestream right now.

You're exactly right; picking ones battles, choosing empathy, and being kind are more important than many realize. I won't lie, there were some points in EW that hit me particularly hard given my health history. Knowing that Soken was writing some of the music while going through what he went through made me break down more than I would care to admit a few times during particularly poignant musical moments.

[Kolsykol]

People having opinions is fine.
The problem is that most people ( who are loud online at least ) seem to be completely incapable of having a negative opinion without being an asshat about it.

You don't like sexualized content?
That's fine, you don't have to like it.
However in most cases people who don't like it have a tendency to take their views on it and project it unto other people and judge them negatively while at the same time talk about it in an extremely derogatory way.
Almost every time it devolves into assumptions and insults about age and motives etc based on absolutely nothing other than their own pov and with a complete unwillingness to even attempt to view things from another pov.
It's completely in bad faith and it revolves entirely around being a complete turd about it, it's no longer just an opinion it becomes more personal and trying to push it in peoples face and shame them.
And I think it's often the same with quite a lot of negative takes on FFXIV that gets a lot of push-back.
Usually the reason why it gets push-back is because of how it was delivered.
I have negative opinions on FFXIV too and I've talked about them, but I've never had people lose their mind and go after me for it.

I think people are just way too hostile with their negative opinions and it often comes across as the person having some deep problems with narcissism where they think everyone is stupid or a bad person for liking something they don't.
And then there's also a lot of stuff being thrown at the devs talking about how lazy or horrible they supposedly are, accusing a dev of being lazy is actually a pretty big deal imo especially with how hard most of them work for not all that great pay often times.
It might not seem like a big deal to you to call a dev lazy, but I think most people who have some understanding of what goes into game development knows how insulting that is.
Not to mention that most of the time it's just completely out of their hands to begin with and they might even agree but just aren't given the time and resources to do anything about it.

If you're not antagonistic and judgy or whatever with your negative opinions I really don't think you'll upset people, there's some very extreme people who will get upset regardless.
But I don't think they really matter all that much.
I do agree to some extent that toxic positivity is a thing and I see it a lot on sites like Reddit especially where people either like or hate a game and there's no inbetween with any comment going against the grain getting downvoted.
But I rly feel like people complain quite a lot about FFXIV and are quite critical.
And usually the former has to do with recency bias and hype too, Elden Ring is a good example of this good luck criticizing that game right now and it's worth criticizing it's not a perfect game and it does have problems.
But wait a couple of months and it's going to become more acceptable to do.

[Annihilism]

I'm cool with the toxic casuals being rabidly defensive about the game, FF14 is an actual good MMO after all, but all I ask is if someone asks you to do mechanics properly that you don't immediately feel like you've been violated. If the casual player base put as much energy in defending the game as they do in actually playing it we would be happier. It's crazy that I hesitate to tell tanks to interject enemies, plz just play the game decently and I'll leave your FF14 perfection fantasy intact.

[StarkeRegulus]

how do you misconstrue Ironthorne's posts so hard lmao that this is the conclusion you come to

Because that's what he did, literally every line. Want an example? She was talking about (as she reiterated on a post above) people being generally against anything that is put in a negative light even if very small parts of it, including games which I am certain most will agree is a trivial subject. Later she (somehow rudely depending on your perspective, I agree) questioned how these people deal with actual non-trivial negative parts of life.

He trivialized her concerns by saying "some people are just here to have fun", as if people that have concerns aren't having fun or aren't trying to have fun, implying that unless you're blindly having fun and ignoring everything that is bad or negative, you're having fun the wrong way.

See what he did? That's an argument ad hominem, instead of addressing the topic at hand he found a way to divert the attention from it by instead attacking the person who made it, ignoring any validity of the post itself.

This and reducto ad absurdum are some of the most basic and overused fallacies by people having an argument online, it generally works but sadly for him, not with me.

When I said in simpler words exactly what I said above he went "WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT IT ONLY BEING THE RIGHT WAY TO HAVE FUN", see what I did? By not over explaining what I was doing I let him reveal himself as exactly the type of person I was accusing him of being, right as he launched himself in a vicious attack blinded by anger.

So, who said anything about it only being the right way to have fun? He did, heavily implying it in his speech but in such an ambiguous way that it can be backpedaled from in case it backfires. I could dissect his whole post explaining how it's a cry for attention / I'm the victim here post, but I don't wish to discuss it further because it's obvious what type of person I'm talking to, where the argument is going and it's simply put not worth my time.

Did I enlighten you about how I "misconstrued" his post?

Now seriously, it's an internet forum, I just didn't want to have a lengthy argument with someone who was acting super offended, I mean, c'mon... can we not? Please. Just, if you're mad at her send her a PM or something but don't derail the topic with "but what you said was super offensive and now I'm offended". Is that really too much to ask?

[Padudu]

fat snip

lol are you ok bro

i'm ngl if she wanted to talk more generally it wasn't totally clear in her og post:

It’s not just 14, although it’s quite common in people in the game - when hearing anything negative they will either immediately change the subject or reply with some patronising “just cheer up” kinda comment.

Imo it’s important to experience negativity in life and we all do at some point and it helps us deal with tough situations which we will all face at some point.

I wonder about these people who refuse to let any negativity in their life. What happens when it inevitably does happen, they must crumble.

also it's a huge assumption to say that people who don't want to hear anything negative - it doesn't mean they never want or can't hear anything negative in their life lmao, or that they're "going to crumble" when they do but it's trivializing her concerns when they're told that if people respond that way it's probably bcus they don't want to hear it? it's just a bit sus

other than that she legit just stated very obvious things lmao ofc every single person deals with hardships and it helps us and that people shouldn't outright dismiss negative topics. the problem was her last statement which was what inspired the reply, at least i'm p sure because that's wildly generalizing.

it's really not that deep lmao you're treating it like it's some dissertation when all his point really boils down to is: ain't no one asked for that in game

anyways i'm not really mad at her (or you) or anything like that, who cares I come to the forum to post dumb stuff. I don't really think anything offensive was said??? I'm not going to speak for others I'm not offended it was just a weird comment to say lol. and yeah Icethorne's initial reply to it did come off as a bit aggressive/snarky and I can see why you had a problem with that, imo I just think you took what he said in the complete wrong way + your posts give off boomer vibes so I couldn't help myself. sorry bro, please forgive, no hard feelings I promise

& sorry Thoosa fam your post is forever controversial :/

[Ironthorne]

Because that's what he did, literally every line. Want an example? She was talking about (as she reiterated on a post above) people being generally against anything that is put in a negative light even if very small parts of it, including games which I am certain most will agree is a trivial subject. Later she (somehow rudely depending on your perspective, I agree) questioned how these people deal with actual non-trivial negative parts of life.

Yeah, my bad for assuming a post in the official FF14 forum, in a thread called "FF14 and toxic positiivty", is about FF14.

implying that unless you're blindly having fun and ignoring everything that is bad or negative, you're having fun the wrong way.

You're the one making the assumption, not me. Again, nice strawman.

instead of addressing the topic at hand he found a way to divert the attention from it by instead attacking the person who made it, ignoring any validity of the post itself.

Where did I attack the poster? More strawman.

This and reducto ad absurdum are some of the most basic and overused fallacies by people having an argument online, it generally works but sadly for him, not with me.

"Look at me, I know Latin". No, you're wrong. Also, wrong spelling by the way.

When I said in simpler words exactly what I said above he went "WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT IT ONLY BEING THE RIGHT WAY TO HAVE FUN", see what I did? By not over explaining what I was doing I let him reveal himself as exactly the type of person I was accusing him of being, right as he launched himself in a vicious attack blinded by anger.

Continuing putting more words into my mouth. Why don't you just point out where I actually said it? Oh wait, you can't.

So, who said anything about it only being the right way to have fun? He did, heavily implying it in his speech but in such an ambiguous way that it can be backpedaled from in case it backfires.

"Heavily implying". It's not my fault if you have a problem with reading comprehension. It seems the only one looking to get offended is you, and the fact that you had to misconstrue my comment so badly proves it.

Did I enlighten you about how I "misconstrued" his post?

Sure thing buddy.

Now seriously, it's an internet forum, I just didn't want to have a lengthy argument with someone who was acting super offended, I mean, c'mon... can we not? Please. Just, if you're mad at her send her a PM or something but don't derail the topic with "but what you said was super offensive and now I'm offended". Is that really too much to ask?

Wait, was I too....negative for you? Are you trying to impose...*gasp*...toxic positivity on me? You can't do that, that's illegal.