FF14 and toxic positivity

[MaxCarnage]

If someone makes a criticism of the game, it's not very useful if their criticism is not scrutinized. Just as someone has to play the critic, someone has to play the defense, just like in a court room. If they can't handle the person playing the defense, then maybe the side being critical lost the argument. If most people do not agree with the criticism, then maybe the majority of people simply disagree with them. Calling it toxic positivity seems like something that people say when their opinion is unpopular and they can't handle that it's unpopular. Maybe they could just accept that it's unpopular.

Okay but why do discussions on the forums turn into something that has to be won? That's how threads devolve into arguments where people are just spewing insults at each other. It's an open forums where people express opinions and ideas, no matter positive or negative. It's not about people battling each other. Not every discussion has to be a fight. It's extremely unfortunate that you feel the need to approach discussions in that manner

[Jeeqbit]

Okay but why do discussions on the forums turn into something that has to be won? That's how threads devolve into arguments where people are just spewing insults at each other. It's an open forums where people express opinions and ideas, no matter positive or negative. It's not about people battling each other. Not every discussion has to be a fight. It's extremely unfortunate that you feel the need to approach discussions in that manner

They do need to be a fight, because a lot of people make criticism of the game without understanding why it is the way it is or why their criticism can't be be addressed. The developers don't post much to defend themselves, so if players don't do it then no one will. If no one plays the defense, there will only ever be negativity like how wow is and that is not good for the game either.

[Lauront]

They do need to be a fight, because a lot of people make criticism of the game without understanding why it is the way it is or why their criticism can't be be addressed. The developers don't post much to defend themselves, so if players don't do it then no one will. If no one plays the defense, there will only ever be negativity like how wow is and that is not good for the game either.

And what if you're up against concerns for which there is a lack of a suitable/strong defence? You can relay the perspective of the developers (to the extent that you're aware of it), but I don't understand what "winning" has to do with it. It is incumbent on the developers to convince consumers to consume their product. This isn't a court case. Trying to play it like one won't work.

[Jeeqbit]

And what if you're up against concerns for which there is a lack of a suitable/strong defence?

Then maybe the defense will concede and agree with the criticism. An example is the widespread acceptance by a lot of people that "ARR is slow and turns a lot of people away". You don't see a lot of disagreement with that when someone says that in the game.

You can relay the perspective of the developers (to the extent that you're aware of it), but I don't understand what "winning" has to do with it.

Winning doesn't really matter, my point was that if someone makes a criticism and then can't handle the debate that follows and instead goes and says "the FF14 community has toxic positivity" then maybe it's either because they could not think of a way to defend their criticism, or maybe the majority of people just don't agree with the criticism. Neither case necessarily means that "toxic positivity" exists. This is what my original point was saying.

[MsQi]

No context given, but there is a difference between "I don't like this because..." and advising people not to do certain content because it's "!@#$ing garbage" or "The game is total --- before HW!" If you come in shooting don't be surprised if people fire back.

[TaleraRistain]

No context given, but there is a difference between "I don't like this because..." and advising people not to do certain content because it's "!@#$ing garbage" or "The game is total --- before HW!" If you come in shooting don't be surprised if people fire back.

Beat me to it, but exactly this. The phrase might be trite, but you're going to get more bees with honey instead of vinegar. You will get more people debating your point with you in good faith if you try to give some reasoning that they can use as a debate point. And that applies to both criticism and praise.

[Mordrick]

I don't know one single person who thinks this game is flawless and perfect. Could it do some things better? Absolutely. Is it a good quality product and arguably the best quality MMO on the market right now? Yes.

[Kolaina]

They do need to be a fight, because a lot of people make criticism of the game without understanding why it is the way it is or why their criticism can't be be addressed. The developers don't post much to defend themselves, so if players don't do it then no one will. If no one plays the defense, there will only ever be negativity like how wow is and that is not good for the game either.

A fight? Not a discussion? Not an exchange of ideas? But a fight…. That’s extremely unfortunate to hear (read). Aggressive tactics are not necessary.

[Jeeqbit]

A fight? Not a discussion? Not an exchange of ideas? But a fight…. That’s extremely unfortunate to hear (read). Aggressive tactics are not necessary.

A fight, a discussion, a debate, an exchange of ideas, whatever you want to call it.

[Silver-Strider]

A fight, a discussion, a debate, an exchange of ideas, whatever you want to call it.

Needs more Broil Spam