Macrocosmos completely invalidating the P3S heal check is stupid

[ForteNightshade]

I won’t argue that WHM needs more OGCD heals. It absolutely does. Cure III is the most powerful GCD heal regardless of mp economy, but I also won’t argue that WHM needs more mp regen. It absolutely needs that too.

However, WHM is still able to deal with that mechanic just fine. Sorry it makes you miss 2 GCDs of damage, but that doesn’t change that WHM can deal with the mechanic.

Hoping you all get some reworks sometime soon. Nerfing other classes is not the answer. WHM just needs to be buffed to be as good as the other healers.

If every other Healer doesn't have to miss 2-3 GCDs worth of damage, then how is White Mage dealing with the mechanic fine? In theory, Dark Knight can invuln every single tank buster fine. In practice, it's a loss due to the healing necessity—making it inferior to the other tank's invuln.

You can't say something is "fine" when there's a clear disadvantage only one job has. This argument would hold more water if Scholar and Sage also struggled, but they don't. In fact, they're a better comp than any combination which includes White Mage.

Insisting Cure III is the strongest GCD heal doesn't make it any less incorrect. You're ignoring Pneuma and Macrocosmos, both of which heavily outclass Cure III as neither are a damage loss, have nowhere near the MP drain and aren't limited by range. They're both objectively better abilities. You also can't just dismiss the oGCD arsenals the other healers have which further lets them trivialize a mechanic White Mage simply can't.

With all that said, I disagree we should nerf the other healers to compensate for White Mage's poor design. But it isn't fine by any stretch. Frankly, it's that attitude that will encourage the devs to let it rot throughout the expansion. Remember Stormblood Lilies? They clung to that for two years.

[Silver-Strider]

If every other Healer doesn't have to miss 2-3 GCDs worth of damage, then how is White Mage dealing with the mechanic fine? In theory, Dark Knight can invuln every single tank buster fine. In practice, it's a loss due to the healing necessity—making it inferior to the other tank's invuln.

You can't say something is "fine" when there's a clear disadvantage only one job has. This argument would hold more water if Scholar and Sage also struggled, but they don't. In fact, they're a better comp than any combination which includes White Mage.

Insisting Cure III is the strongest GCD heal doesn't make it any less incorrect. You're ignoring Pneuma and Macrocosmos, both of which heavily outclass Cure III as neither are a damage loss, have nowhere near the MP drain and aren't limited by range. They're both objectively better abilities. You also can't just dismiss the oGCD arsenals the other healers have which further lets them trivialize a mechanic White Mage simply can't.

With all that said, I disagree we should nerf the other healers to compensate for White Mage's poor design. But it isn't fine by any stretch. Frankly, it's that attitude that will encourage the devs to let it rot throughout the expansion. Remember Stormblood Lilies? They clung to that for two years.

As long as Cure 3 exists, everyone and their mother will say it's the strongest, despite being limited in every possible way.

Huge MP Cost
Small Radius
Only useful for specific mechanics

None of that matters to them because all they see is "hurr durr big number" and instantly think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Maybe if Cure 3 had a 3 minute CD, 30y radius, cost only 700 MP, had a potency of 1k and instantly granted you a Blood Lily, it would be good but as it currently stands, it's too restrictive to be called anything but clunky and outdated.

[Cheremia]

As long as Cure 3 exists, everyone and their mother will say it's the strongest, despite being limited in every possible way.

Huge MP Cost
Small Radius
Only useful for specific mechanics

None of that matters to them because all they see is "hurr durr big number" and instantly think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Maybe if Cure 3 had a 3 minute CD, 30y radius, cost only 700 MP, had a potency of 1k and instantly granted you a Blood Lily, it would be good but as it currently stands, it's too restrictive to be called anything but clunky and outdated.

Agreed,

… just stop worshipping cure 3 already, how many whms have you seen use it?
I only do if the whm thinks its an direct upgrade to cure 2.

Plenary+double rapture does the trick too. Without using any mp. Or being so restricted in range.

If you REALLY need to heal huge amounts for whatever reason, every other heal whm has is better.

Big heals only are still not good if they only come with drawbacks.

[Liam_Harper]

I'll tell you what devs. I'll take the huge sacrifice of losing "the strongest GCD heal" and take 4 or 5 more decent oGCD heals instead like the other healers. I know, I know, such an unfair trade for WHM and we'd lose our "big heal identity" that makes us such a "healing powerhouse". But I'd do the noble thing and take that loss for the good of the game! ...or something like that. Yes.

[Rilifane]

Sorry, no can do.
Alisaie said no more noble sacrifices. She doomed us and now we're stuck with Cure III making us into a "healing powerhouse" until the Final Da- nevermind, they got averted. No hope for us, then.

[Chopstix]

Cure 3? Never used that ability. I looked at the range and took it off of my bar.

QQ is blown out of proportion. U need like 2 lili aoes and u can also slap that pity horoscope ability on top. There is assize too, oh and ur co healer. They have some oGCDs too.

[elioaiko]

Cure 3 is such a niche skill, it literally requires tight stacks, eats MP so fast and most mechanics will require you to be moving/spreading.

You can't cast that in long movement.

That being said, WHM simply can't compete with any healer in healing potential because of the punishing aspect of GCD healing. Misery needs to be DPS-neutral for lily usage to be worth it.

During reclears, I just straight up told my WHM cohealer to only use their oGCDs because as a SGE, I have many tools to cover WHM's lack of free healing. He even felt bad because to do really well with WHM, who doesn't have buffs or syngery, you have to be as selfish as possible for your damage to even match up to the other healers.

That is the perpetual nightmare WHM lives in. For as long as there's no reward for GCD healing, WHM will always want to cast Glare above everything else. Not to mention, having deaths destroys their MP economy–throwback to 5.0 AST not having any MP to spare.

While I'm sure they will delete or nerf Macro into the floor come 7.0, again WHM presents to be the real problem child among the healers with its lack of growth, stagnant gameplay and it's rabid whiteknights that swear up and down that it's the best healer ever when in fact it's not.

Sure it's a comfy pick, but for the absolute wrong reasons. It's not easy because it flows, it's literally the base thought process of healing into general. There's little to no timing any of their skills and even if you do, it's on a massive CD (Benediction) or having zero control (Lilybell).

It's okay to say that WHM needs help because it does, since SB. Pretending to be okay with it will only lead to the devs ignoring it further.

[Rilifane]

During reclears, I just straight up told my WHM cohealer to only use their oGCDs because as a SGE, I have many tools to cover WHM's lack of free healing. He even felt bad because to do really well with WHM, who doesn't have buffs or syngery, you have to be as selfish as possible for your damage to even match up to the other healers.

That is the perpetual nightmare WHM lives in. For as long as there's no reward for GCD healing, WHM will always want to cast Glare above everything else. Not to mention, having deaths destroys their MP economy–throwback to 5.0 AST not having any MP to spare.

That's sums up how WHM/ AST and WHM/ SGE and to a degree even WHM/ SCH work: you tell the WHM to not heal.
Sure, during prog everyone just makes sure you survive to see more mechanics but once the party is even a little bit confident in a fight the WHM is dead last in healing with a huge gap betweem them and AST and SGE. Even SCH, who also suffers a dps loss from using their job resource on healing, is always ahead in healing and dps in any of the ranked comps.
I remember saying "Don't heal, I got the next aoe. Don't heal, I'll blow Star in a moment" so many times and it just feels incredibly bad that this is the best way to play WHM.

It just brings nothing to the table but it keeps getting defended as if it's fine. No, it's not.
It's dead last in healing and dps. Just because you can clear content on WHM doesn't mean it's fine.
People were able to clear content with a 5.0 RDM that was so undertuned it was the laughing stock of the caster role because it fought with BRD for last spot in dps. People were able to clear content with 5.0 undertuned oGCD Mudra NIN. Surprise, they got fixed in no time.
WHM is not the "powerhouse healer". It's not the "beginner healer". It's not the "high dps healer". It's not the "prog healer"
It's the worst for healing, it's the worst for beginners, it's the worst for dps and it's the worst for prog with its horrible MP economy and barebone toolkit. But it's fine because you can clear content with it if your co heal bends over backwards to make up for your lack of anything useful.
And if a party doesn't mitigate properly, your co heal isn't on top of their oGCD game or chaos ensues, WHM is the first to notice and suffer.
But it's fine because it has Cure III and is the beginner-friendly healing powerhouse.

[elioaiko]

WHM is not the "powerhouse healer". It's not the "beginner healer". It's not the "high dps healer". It's not the "prog healer"
It's the worst for healing, it's the worst for beginners, it's the worst for dps and it's the worst for prog with its horrible MP economy and barebone toolkit. But it's fine because you can clear content with it if your co heal bends over backwards to make up for your lack of anything useful.
And if a party doesn't mitigate properly, your co heal isn't on top of their oGCD game or chaos ensues, WHM is the first to notice and suffer.
But it's fine because it has Cure III and is the beginner-friendly healing powerhouse.

Thank you! I feel like people defend WHM so much so that what's the point of asking for buffs when you think it's okay?

If WHM is so great and doesn't need any changes at all because people want a braindead healer with nothing–like you said–to bring to the table, then why is it the first healer to literally feel the worst in every expansion? Surely, it's lack of evolution would keep that amazing kit it has.

Except it's not. At this point, WHM is beginning to show it's weakness to the point where it can't even hide behind "GCD powerhouse".

It's not a beginner healer, it teaches you nothing about how healing actually plays out. It has to rely on its GCD to heal when the other three healers don't need to at all. WHM literally teaches you how to play poorly because it lacks urgency, rewards for preplanning and has zero synergy with other healers.

All WHM has is GCD healing and that cannot and will never, nor should it be their destined design. Having to GCD heal without any reward feels horrible. Why is it that WHM has to be subjected to being dull with nothing unique or special for the sake of "easy" or "learning". Is this really the way people want the most iconic healer in FF lore and they ignore it because it should be "simple".

WHM could be so much more and yet this obsession with being simple has stopped it from ever being more than it is.

[Grimoire-M]

A better point of comparison might be to look at Summoner + Dancer vs White Mage + Monk. You get more potential mitigation out of Summoner/Dancer and while you definitely lose out on healing, you gain more DPS from a Summoner and a Dancer if you’re maximizing DPS to begin with. The gist there is clear. If the bulk of the healing load is on a single healer already, the margins favor using support DPS and high sustain tanks to cover the gaps, thereby allowing for a single healer comp to overtake the standard comp.

If we want to healers to be mandatory, buffing white mage is part of that solution, given its play patterns work against that currently.