You guys gotta learn to be patient in PF

[Skiros]

I've raided for a long time now and every tier I had to deal with Savage PF (once it became cross-world). Let me tell you that while there are sometimes one or two people who are utterly irredeemable and your best bet is to leave immediately, by far the majority of PFs I've been in wipe to mistakes distributed more or less equally among the players, sometimes including me.

What PF needs isn't skill or more awareness. It's patience. Leaving and tilting after two wipes at two different places due to different players is only going to make the problem worse. In my experience the most successful PFs are the ones that are patient with no obvious weak links.

The reason why PF rewards patience is twofold: first, everyone has a "personality" in terms of how they move, what their preferred spots are, or even down to things like when they decide to greed a cast and run in to solve a mechanic. Every time you disband you gotta learn these quirks all over again. While they might not be too pertinent in Savage, in Ultimates it is a real thing. In Savage, some main tanks prefer to grab tether in Phoinix to the north. Some prefer grabbing it towards northwest. Some melees prefer going into the center of the boss during Ashplume + Firestorms. Some BLMs prefer sitting in their Ley Lines until the last second for the first Aetherial Shackles which can sometimes scare people into overadjusting. All these little things can cause wipes if players are not sufficiently aware to adjust for these little behavioral quirks, which you should honestly not expect in PF.

Second, impatience, especially if you express it in party chat, just causes tilt and makes people lose focus. It should be obvious why this is a problem.

The reason why I dodge PF and mostly raid with my static is not actually primarily due to their skill level. I think most people in PF play reasonably well for the encounter. It's actually mostly due to the impatience. People leave after two wipes, or start fighting with a single death, or start tilting and make all kinds of mistakes. Raiding isn't just a skill check, it's also a mental check. Being able to keep your cool, be patient, and have enough awareness of different people's personalities to adjust for them is an important skill that PF doesn't have. I spent 4 hours today reclearing P3S and it could've been done in 1 if people didn't just leave after one or two pulls. The impatience is the real reason why PF is bad.

Also, as an addendum, the fact that NA PF is often so impatient that they don't even want to briefly discuss Ashplume spread spots before the pull, and end up wiping to Ashplume spread 8 mins into the encounter is just stupid. People really need to be patient to spend literally just one minute talking about spread spots.

And, I don't want to generalize but in my experience the ones who are the most impatient are typically the ones whose raider profile on a certain website doesn't paint them in a very positive light.

[LittleChickenNugget]

I don't have time to waste on a computer game I play hours a day, Skiros.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I don't have time to waste on a computer game I play hours a day, Skiros.

I dont have time to spend time on playing a game- oh wait...

[EgilTheStressedMage]

Don't start or join a farm party if you suck.

[Liam_Harper]

Don't start or join a farm party if you suck.

Every static I've been in has wiped during reclears some weeks. Sometimes the silliest mistakes, but you just laugh it off and go again. I've watched world first raid teams, rank 1 players, triple legends and the rest wipe multiple times to silly mistakes. It's human and it happens.

PF's "2 mistakes = kick, or disband" nonsense is completely unrealistic. Especially in a group full of people who don't even know each other. Sure, if someone's clearly new to the fight or playing their class wrong, get rid of them. But kicking a solid player over a slip up or two, or throwing the entire group away, is shooting yourself in the foot. Yet it happens constantly.

[Skiros]

Every static I've been in has wiped during reclears some weeks. Sometimes the silliest mistakes, but you just laugh it off and go again. I've watched world first raid teams, rank 1 players, triple legends and the rest wipe multiple times to silly mistakes. It's human and it happens.

PF's "2 mistakes = kick, or disband" nonsense is completely unrealistic. Especially in a group full of people who don't even know each other. Sure, if someone's clearly new to the fight or playing their class wrong, get rid of them. But kicking a solid player over a slip up or two, or throwing the entire group away, is shooting yourself in the foot. Yet it happens constantly.

Exactly. It's honestly just another sort of casual toxicity.

[Mandudez]

Every static I've been in has wiped during reclears some weeks. Sometimes the silliest mistakes, but you just laugh it off and go again. I've watched world first raid teams, rank 1 players, triple legends and the rest wipe multiple times to silly mistakes. It's human and it happens.

PF's "2 mistakes = kick, or disband" nonsense is completely unrealistic. Especially in a group full of people who don't even know each other. Sure, if someone's clearly new to the fight or playing their class wrong, get rid of them. But kicking a solid player over a slip up or two, or throwing the entire group away, is shooting yourself in the foot. Yet it happens constantly.

The huge difference is you know those people know the fight perfectly and won't keep making mistakes over and over. There is no guarantee of that with people you don't know in PF. Especially when those people don't even say anything about their mistake and hope that no one notices.

[ArchlordPie]

PF's "2 mistakes = kick, or disband" nonsense is completely unrealistic. Especially in a group full of people who don't even know each other. Sure, if someone's clearly new to the fight or playing their class wrong, get rid of them. But kicking a solid player over a slip up or two, or throwing the entire group away, is shooting yourself in the foot. Yet it happens constantly.

Before I joined my current static, I was a "3 wipes = kicks or disband" leader, but I also got a week 1 P2S kill and week 2 P3S kill with complete pugs. The trick is that you use those 3 wipes to gather information and then act on that information instead of blindly disbanding. If you get 3 wipes that are caused by 3 different people at 3 different points in the fight, put it up to a vote. Both of those kills came from groups that hit 3 wipes and got asked "should we disband" and said "no, let's keep all 8 of us around and keep at it". I didn't actually have to kick or disband in either case, because even though the P2S party took an hour and a half to fill (playing at off-peak hours + "3 wipes = kicks or disband" tends to do that), I wound up with a team of 8 people who were consistent with Limit Cut and knew the rest of the mechanics, and we hammered out a kill over an hour or so. P3S took the better part of 6 hours with mostly the same group (had to replace the offtank due to our first one getting IRL aggro, but the new one knew the fight), but after hitting our three wipe "limit", deciding to keep trying, and immediately seeing a 2% enrage on the fourth wipe, everyone was like "yeah let's buckle down, everyone food and pot, clean it up and we'll kill" and we got it in the end.

The whole point of that line is to scare off people who know for sure they're going to trap the party. I include that in my clear party descriptions because if I don't do that, we otherwise don't have any filters at all on who can join aside from item level (which is eventually irrelevant) and duty completion status, which doesn't help when you know the fight just as well as the people who have cleared, but you can't actually get the kill because you keep getting trapped.

If it's a practice party I have patience.
If it's a clear group/ seen enrage group I have limited patience.

This is more than fair. If you've seen enrage multiple times and are consistent with all the fight mechanics, you have every right to expect the same of your teammates and to leave groups that advertise themselves as meeting that standard when they actually don't.

[Mandudez]

You have clearly not been in NA PF recently if you think that only some parties have one or two players treating it like normal mode. Try over half AT LEAST.

[Equitable_Remedy]

patient

I don't follow.