The warrior 100% crit/DH needs addressing

[Chopstix]

it is a bit dumb since your guaranteed crit count as a crit given by their buff (you can check it on logs) so they literally steal dps from you for nothing and it help them to make a better parse.

I remember a drama about a warrior right clicking on the litanny buff to prevent drg to steal his rdps

Oh dear, this is first i heard of this. How do u check this in logs exactly?

Xeno submitted a question about this

Yeah i just watched the video, ty for the heads up, hopefully it will get some attention :P.

[Marxam]

This is more about the fact that WAR does fairly low damage normally but then has a huge spike in its burst, if you didn’t crit during that burst window then your dps suffered a lot more than other jobs, kind of like MCH and wildfire, if you screwed up your wildfire your dps plummeted because it was such a huge part of their dps. Basically the only other fix would have been to level out WARs overall damage which I guess they felt didn’t fit the job thematically, so instead they just made that burst more consistent.

DRK has higher burst in EW than all the other tanks so saying WAR has burst (or any other tank) is redundant. Traditionally the reason you would have a burst is because your cds don't line up with party raid buffs so you needed stronger than usual cds to compensate for that. However, in EW they lined up raid cds to the 60/120 timers so all jobs have a burst now that fits in a window so they don't need to be a strong anymore.

They obviously balance the fact that war can 100% CDH with the other tanks because the other tanks have higher potency base BUT, they can exceed WAR when they slot in DH materia. That's where the problem is. DH isn't even really that good as the damage is highly variable but in the current "damage > everything else" meta that bit of extra does add up over a fight.

The only good thing I think we can all agree on that 100% CDH does, is crit heals during BW/NF, which is really nice. It's like WAR has a one min (2 charge) SCH recitation which is helpful in most cases. It's probably the one reason I'm still on the fence about the 100% CDH. Honestly I would like to see them first; make DH a DPS exclusive stat, and make use of Tenacity for tanks. Then balance the tanks around that fact that WAR is the only one with CDH by increasing potency of their gcd/ogcds to be on par. If after all that, 100% CDH is still an issue for WAR players, then I would have to say its time to get rid of that 100% CDH.

[Cabalabob]

DRK has higher burst in EW than all the other tanks so saying WAR has burst (or any other tank) is redundant. Traditionally the reason you would have a burst is because your cds don't line up with party raid buffs so you needed stronger than usual cds to compensate for that. However, in EW they lined up raid cds to the 60/120 timers so all jobs have a burst now that fits in a window so they don't need to be a strong anymore.

They obviously balance the fact that war can 100% CDH with the other tanks because the other tanks have higher potency base BUT, they can exceed WAR when they slot in DH materia. That's where the problem is. DH isn't even really that good as the damage is highly variable but in the current "damage > everything else" meta that bit of extra does add up over a fight.

The only good thing I think we can all agree on that 100% CDH does, is crit heals during BW/NF, which is really nice. It's like WAR has a one min (2 charge) SCH recitation which is helpful in most cases. It's probably the one reason I'm still on the fence about the 100% CDH. Honestly I would like to see them first; make DH a DPS exclusive stat, and make use of Tenacity for tanks. Then balance the tanks around that fact that WAR is the only one with CDH by increasing potency of their gcd/ogcds to be on par. If after all that, 100% CDH is still an issue for WAR players, then I would have to say its time to get rid of that 100% CDH.

You can’t compare EW DRK to SB WAR, it had a 200 potency average combo, upheaval and nothing else outside its burst window which was just 6 500 potency fell cleaves back to back. The massive difference in potency between fell cleave and everything else a WAR could do meant that if those fell cleaves weren’t direct crits you were losing a massive portion of your damage dealt due to pure RNG (not to mention that your crit rate was tied to how much beast gauge you had left). That is why people complained that WAR was too reliant on spike damage and lead to the change of guaranteed direct crits.

Since then WAR has levelled out its dps the same as every other tank which is why the people who were complaining about SB WAR are now complaining about the guaranteed direct crits because the job is no longer reliant on that spike so that change is now just gimping their burst. They want the same thing they’ve always wanted. WAR to be able to deal consistent damage.

[eagledorf]

I actually think the opposite, all the tanks should have guaranteed DH on their burst. Isn't it desirable for tanks to value Tenacity, a tank only stat, over DH, a DPS-only stat? Not just thematically, but for materia prices too.

The parse thing... That's an issue with the nonosite, not the game. It's not really an issue for SE, bring it up with the sight admins

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I actually think the opposite, all the tanks should have guaranteed DH on their burst. Isn't it desirable for tanks to value Tenacity, a tank only stat, over DH, a DPS-only stat? Not just thematically, but for materia prices too.

The parse thing... That's an issue with the nonosite, not the game. It's not really an issue for SE, bring it up with the sight admins

There is no point putting any stock in Tenacity when it is so weak, even if for some reason, tanks no longer melded DH, we would still take Determination over Tenacity. Until Tenacity gains a substantial boost to a point where it matched Determination, Tenacity will only be taken to meet a new tier at best.

Also DH is NOT a DPS only stat, due to the fact tanks and healers are not locked out of melding DH, the stat just is not native on the gear. This is evident by the fact that both Tenacity and Piety stipulate that the stat has no effect on a role other than their respective role.

[eagledorf]

Tenacity is stronger than SkS or DH on WAR though. My point is that makes much more sense than having the tank stat be the least desirable stat for tanks like it is for the three others.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Tenacity is stronger than SkS or DH on WAR though. My point is that makes much more sense than having the tank stat be the least desirable stat for tanks like it is for the three others.

Yes Tenacity is stronger on WAR and only on WAR but only to reach specific tiers. WAR is very much a problem child as far as gearing and melds are concerned when they made WAR the brain dead tank.

Personally they need to remove the auto Crit DH from IR and Nascent Chaos actions since it gains nothing from raid buffs and again makes omnitank sets unoptimal for the majority of the tanks. Really the only auto Crit DH I'm okay with is likes of Reassemble, since it's typically 1 use under raid buffs, which is far less egregious. So no I don't think the other tanks should have auto DH on their bursts, it's already a terrible design approach with WAR.

[Chopstix]

if those fell cleaves weren’t direct crits you were losing a massive portion of your damage dealt due to pure RNG

This is a good point. The number of hits (oGCDs included) a warrior can land during a 15 sec buff window pales in comparison to DRK and GBR. Pali has one more with requi than warrior (along with a dot that is constantly ticking). The shear volume alone reduces dramatically the RNG variance over the course of the fight. The GCD potency boost would need to be absolutely astronomical on warrior to compensate properly for the loss of guaranteed high dmg. Again, this is because beyond the gapcloser spam that every tank has, warrior has just one oGCD, upheaval. DMG comes from oGCDs, as adding in a big GCD hit (like primal rend) doesn't really add that much as it competes with whatever GCD u would be doing instead. An oGCD on the other hand, has no competition and thus it is 100% effective DPS increase.

DRK got 1200 oGCD potency in EW. All of it can be used under raid buffs. Massive boost on shadow clone too, which is again oGCD, good chunk of it goes under raid buffs. oGCD retrigger on salted earth. I wonder y DRK does so much dmg now huh.
GBR got continuation on burst strike. A big GCD hit every minute. Overall DMG boost feels more reasonable than above DRK.
Pali: lol. While cool the new ranged combo was barely better than the melee combo. No wonder they were so far behind until they got much needed potency boosts.
WAR: primal rend GCD ability. That's it. 1 min IR, free gapclosers and upheavel was y warrior was well ahead of pali.

For this reason, because id rather not see warrior turned into another oGCD monkey job, it is best to keep the CDH moves and to make sure stats above 100% do not get wasted in order to stay competitive. Personally i dont understand y GBR with lots of oGCDs has one that does 700 potency (yup, same as primal rend potency on an oGCD and HALF the CD). Upheaval and burst strike should trade potency values.

[ForteNightshade]

The GCD potency boost would need to be absolutely astronomical on warrior to compensate properly for the loss of guaranteed high dmg.

No it doesn't? DHCs are roughly 15-20% which is essentially No Mercy. All they have to do is slap a 20% damage buff onto Inner Release and call it a day. They could do the same for Infuriate and Primal Rend but simply buffing the potency by 20% accomplishes the same thing. To specifically outline the changes...

Inner Release buffs the next three Fell Cleaves by 20%
Inner Chaos goes from 650 potency to 780
Chaotic Cyclone goes from 320 to 385
Primal Rend foes from 700 to 840

These changes, in addition to all of these abilities now being able to CHD would be more than enough. In fact, they may be a little high though I think both PLD and WAR could use a buff.

Tenacity is stronger than SkS or DH on WAR though. My point is that makes much more sense than having the tank stat be the least desirable stat for tanks like it is for the three others.

It really isn't. The highest simmed BiS for Warrior drops all Tenacity melds for Skill Speed to reach 2.40. Granted, it does have some competitive Tenacity alternatives but the stat is only relative on Warrior because its interaction with Direct Hit is negligible outside guaranteed DHCs. While buffing Tenacity and/or locking tanks out of Direct Hit does fix the meld issue, it doesn't address Warrior completely ignoring Chain Stratagem, Battle Litany and Battle Voice.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

No it doesn't? DHCs are roughly 15-20% which is essentially No Mercy. All they have to do is slap a 20% damage buff onto Inner Release and call it a day.

Literally what are you talking about? A CDH is basically double damage.