The warrior 100% crit/DH needs addressing

[Leonerdo]

it is a bit dumb since your guaranteed crit count as a crit given by their buff (you can check it on logs) so they literally steal dps from you for nothing and it help them to make a better parse.

Oh dear, this is first i heard of this. How do u check this in logs exactly?

Nope, Chain doesn't steal anything from auto-crits. Just checked a WAR log that had IR buff and Chain buff at the same time. After filtering Fell Cleave to only ones with IR buff, it does not list any rDPS stolen by Chain.

Out of curiosity, I checked the top 60 SCH parses in P1S, and only one has a WAR. So yeah, it's a bit of an issue. There's also only one with a PLD, but that's just because PLD doesn't focus on burst, which is something that probably never will (and shouldn't?) be fixed. The auto-crit problem is possible to fix though, I think.

[ArianeEwah]

[...]PLD doesn't focus on burst, which is something that probably never will (and shouldn't?) be fixed.

Then again, they are gonna change Trick and Mug because it increases synergy between jobs somehow?! I dread what might actually happen after seeing the recent live letter.

[ArianeEwah]

Or maybe they could just stop stuffing all the potency into 2 attacks. It doesn't require 200 iq to see that if you put 1200 potency on an attack that you only get every 60 seconds then whether or not the attack direct crits has a massive impact on your performance.


This was one of the several issues with warrior before the 4.2 rework. A significant amount of your damage was during your 2 minute Inner Release+Berserk, so crit and direct hit rng had way too much of an impact.
It is an issue with samurai right now and it is an issue with gunbreaker as well.
I still take crit rng over guaranteed crits any day but it could've been avoided from the start.

On the other hand: since you can't have those jobs at the top of dps charts - as it was the case for 4.2 warrior - they are going to be the least favoured meta/speedkill jobs. Since Shadowbringers WAR is on the lower end of dps meta (for a reason).

I think people have to remember that your average crit hit chance is still around 20-25% - even with BL 30-35% - and not 50+% or other wishful thinking like e.g. every high potency hit magically becoming a guaranteed crit. The dps checks are based on the average damage output, which means 20-25% is what one should expect for their crit chance. Yet, e.g. most top GNB parses have 5/7 Double Downs crit. Ofc, in those cases your performance sky-rockets. RNG crits are an important RPG element, and I believe auto-crits are eliminating it entirely. Yes, we could hit our head on the table for failing the dps check on week 1 because the crit hit rate was abyssmal low; but that shouldn't stop from trying it again, and maybe even clearing it rather early thanks to god-like rng.

There are simple chances for WAR to be at least somewhat acceptable for crit buffing raid parties: just rely on Infuriate and maybe Primal Rend for guarateed crits, rest on flat damage increase buff. Also, it doesn't fit warrior; they are fierce and uncontrollable, they hit hard and brutal. Crits and direct hits are more like skill shots, precise and calculated - best example would be Reassemble!

I also don't get SqEx philosophy here: Since 4.2 FC, IC etc. potency has been rather high, and there is barely any damage fluctuation thx to the auto direct crits; and then in 6.0 they increase the combo damage by a rather large amount (roughly 20% after taking 6.0 damage scale into account) while lowering the potency of said auto-crits, increasing the fluctuation... and now they have to change SAM because their dps is "widely fluctuating"? SqEx's approach is irrational, contradictory and inconsistent! One day they go for the left way, but then they take a turn to the right... mind-boggling... (oh, and don't get me started on healers, the healer sub-forum is running the memes rn)

[AziraSyuren]

The sad part is your whole groups overall dps will still be higher with classes that auto crit (as long as potencies are the same as before they changed it) but since it affects a few individuals personal raid dps numbers they will be excluded.

Wait, what? No, that's not how it works. That's the opposite of how it works. If someone's RDPS is negatively affected by a job then it means that the other job's ADPS is too, which means the overall party damage is lower.

[Canadane]

Tonight my warrior was excluded from a barse group.

Maybe uhhh don't do parse groups?

[Esunya]

Maybe uhhh don't do parse groups?

Damage is damage. You're acting like parsing and parse groups are the only time damage matters and contributes nothing to the discussion. Having a group with Warrior and crit/dh buffing jobs like BRD DRG SCH will actively make meeting DPS checks harder and why should that be something any group wants? Sure they might be able to tolerate it, but good game designs shouldn't force groups to tolerate a contradictory game design.

[Chopstix]

Nope, Chain doesn't steal anything from auto-crits. Just checked a WAR log that had IR buff and Chain buff at the same time. After filtering Fell Cleave to only ones with IR buff, it does not list any rDPS stolen by Chain.

Out of curiosity, I checked the top 60 SCH parses in P1S, and only one has a WAR. So yeah, it's a bit of an issue. There's also only one with a PLD, but that's just because PLD doesn't focus on burst, which is something that probably never will (and shouldn't?) be fixed. The auto-crit problem is possible to fix though, I think.

U r correct. I forgot to update my comment, rDPS is not stolen on guaranteed crit/DH anymore. I was not super thorough just checked a few times here and there what contributes/doesn't.

Cant say im surprised about the SCH data. I imagine it is all DRK/GNB otherwise. They can pump out the most buffable potency w/in raidbuff windows. Pali can dump all their oGCDs there as well, plus two dots to boot. It is what it is some jobs will always be better for speedrun environments. No reason to actively create punishing anti-synergy limiting job selection. It just creates unnecessary headache, complication and sometimes even toxicity.

[Arcturius]

Wait, what? No, that's not how it works. That's the opposite of how it works. If someone's RDPS is negatively affected by a job then it means that the other job's ADPS is too, which means the overall party damage is lower.

You missed the part where I said if the potencies are the same but okay tell me how the group would lose dps if they upped the chance of a crit opposed to a guaranteed that would hit the same. The only thing that changes is the buffer doesn't get any credit lowering their rdps and making the other who guaranteed it higher. But this was a guess based on before patch notes and is not the case due to nerfed potencies.

[AziraSyuren]

You missed the part where I said if the potencies are the same but okay tell me how the group would lose dps if they upped the chance of a crit opposed to a guaranteed that would hit the same. The only thing that changes is the buffer doesn't get any credit lowering their rdps and making the other who guaranteed it higher. But this was a guess based on before patch notes and is not the case due to nerfed potencies.

I thought you meant the specific classes that do vs the ones that don't.