FF14 has a quantity problem

[Skiros]

I'm tired of the team's unrelenting focus on quality above all else, to the point where so much of the budget is spent on squeezing that last bit of perfection out with diminishing returns. The fact that they promised to invest more into FF14 doesn't excite me at all when I feel that they are just going to pour more and more into the "Final Fantasy" part of the equation rather than the MMO part of the game. Or, even for the latter, more of the budget is going to be spent on making awesome scenes like riding on a whale or flying through Pagl'than, both of which are cool the first time but quickly lose their flavor, rather than actual gameplay.

I hope this game will expand the amount of content that it offers, because ShB felt like it offered almost nothing. Systems like New Game+ are not content, they are systems that recycle existing content. This game's quality is already pretty good and I honestly don't have many complaints with the game. But this game is not something you can even play for more than a week each patch. 6.05 barely lasted a week, for example.

They really should start thinking about quantity, and not just quality. I completely disagree with their blind focus on quality above all else. It takes more and more budget to increase quality past a certain point that could be way better utilized for quantity.

[Illmaeran]

This is likely bait, but given there's a some amount of validity to the claims based on the point of view of a segment of players, I'll bite.


You're not going to change a Japanese company's pursuit of perfection. Their entire work culture is based on just that; constant pursuit of perfection, or as they consider it "sufficiently good".

I find more than enough to do in the game to keep me regularly engaged with it through out expansion cycles. If you happen to finish the content you wish to do quickly, then that's on you. There's nothing wrong with only wanting to do certain limited quantity content, but that in no way means the game itself doesn't have enough content overall. What's there is just stuff you don't prefer and from what you've said, choose to not engage with.

Please, come and play the stuff you enjoy. Once you're done with that why not do other things/play other games and return when there's more of what you like here?

[Kaurhz]

I both agree and disagree, really.

I agree on the premise that in some areas of the game they focus a lot on the quality which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when the said content is treated as what would effectively be a 1-off experience then it can be a bit of a flaw.

The part I disagree on is just the quantity, I don't think the game should focus on quantity too much as it will inevitably come at an expense to the quality in certain other areas of the content, this will lead to a lot of content which doesn't really have the substance that it should, and would possibly just end up being 1-off experiences. The main issue they have and should work on going forward is the replay-value of the content they already do have, in addition to the systems too.

To draw some examples:

Why is it that a system like Faux Hollows effectively get reduced to a time-locked piece of content that ultimately just forms part of the weekly roulette scheme, something like this ideally should be expanded and adopted more widely across content with more rewards, not necessarily new ones, but alternate avenues for already existing items. E.g. Copycat Bulb. This is where the material coffers from Grand Company really excel. They could also tie in gear related rewards which could be gated (arguably only gear should be), which would give a larger scope of content that people can engage in to get gear. If you incentivise the content enough then people will naturally be drawn to said content. Faux Hollows could be so good if it wasn't a weekly reward/obligation, or if it were expanded to all the trials, and potentially raids, dungeons.

Another area is the achievement points. Honestly, this is a system that is practically abandoned that shouldn't be. They effectively only used it to shaft older veteran rewards to. Expand on the rewards in this area, significantly so and people will be inclined to dabble in a much more varied content, especially if the rewards are good and expensive. For example, I'm sat on an excess of 301 points, and I have absolutely nothing to use them for.

[Skiros]

I find more than enough to do in the game to keep me regularly engaged with it through out expansion cycles. If you happen to finish the content you wish to do quickly, then that's on you. There's nothing wrong with only wanting to do certain limited quantity content, but that in no way means the game itself doesn't have enough content overall. What's there is just stuff you don't prefer and from what you've said, choose to not engage with.

I've probably engaged with way more of the content than most of you. I've done every single raid, soloed HoH, got t100 in ranked Feast, do hunts, used to spawn hunts for a while, used to craft a ton, crafted for the world second team this Savage tier, did Delubrum Savage on patch, etc.

A lot of those activities just don't take much time. About the only activity that took me significant time was t100 in ranked Feast (500 games) and Ultimates, which are like ~50 hours. HoH solo took me <20 hours to prog and clear. Delubrum Savage took me 10 hours, etc.

So when I see people making this same argument over and over again, I have to wonder what exactly they think is content. Probably the grinds, which IMO in no way constitute as "content". Doing A-ranks 3000 times is not "content".

[SeverianLyonesse]

I see so many redundant, underdeveloped, and abandoned systems in FF that I just can't take this quantity/quality oversimplification seriously.

Plus, I would argue one of the most fundamental things to FFXIV, which are job fantasies, would be both more homogenized and less distinct if we took that approach to job design philosophy and implemented every half-baked idea players propose on these forums. The current job roster, if only aesthetically, shows off how good XIV's design is when it is focused and polished.

[Skiros]

I both agree and disagree, really.

I agree on the premise that in some areas of the game they focus a lot on the quality which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when the said content is treated as what would effectively be a 1-off experience then it can be a bit of a flaw.

The part I disagree on is just the quantity, I don't think the game should focus on quantity too much as it will inevitably come at an expense to the quality in certain other areas of the content, this will lead to a lot of content which doesn't really have the substance that it should, and would possibly just end up being 1-off experiences. The main issue they have and should work on going forward is the replay-value of the content they already do have, in addition to the systems too.

If they actually significantly revamp how the gameplay works in this game, I can definitely concur with that. Unfortunately jobs have been dumbed down so much that replayability in most content is just non-existent and the way they add replayability is often through pure tedium and grinds. I do not consider stuff like killing 3000 A-ranks as good examples of replayability.

Bozja actually had very solid replayability because the Lost actions actually significantly changed how a lot of jobs worked, and in particular it made Warrior one of the most complex jobs if you wanted to maximize its output due to Blood Rage. That's the kind of replayability I can get behind, allowing players to experiment with new stuff.

Pure grinds simply don't entice me no matter the incentives and I've not done any content for the rewards in a long time: Ultimate weapons are ugly, PvP ranked rewards are ugly, I don't care about mounts or minions, I don't care about getting BiS beyond speedrunning, etc. I do content for itself. Sadly it feels like a lot of FF14 players feel differently. I don't understand how people can say that FATEs have become so good in ShB/EW, when it's literally the same type of content, just with an insane grind checklist now. I feel like a lot of players in this game will praise a piece of content even if it's dogshit, so long as the incentives/reward behind that content are great.

[Skiros]

I see so many redundant, underdeveloped, and abandoned systems in FF that I just can't take this quantity/quality oversimplification seriously.

Plus, I would argue one of the most fundamental things to FFXIV, which are job fantasies, would be both more homogenized and less distinct if we took that approach to job design philosophy and implemented every half-baked idea players propose on these forums. The current job roster, if only aesthetically, shows off how good XIV's design is when it is focused and polished.

Good thing I never said I wanted more systems. I don't mind getting more of the same: 6 Savage raids each tier, more alliance raids each expansion, more dungeons etc.

[Kaurhz]

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I don't think job simplicity really would hinder their ability to actually make replay-able content. In many circumstances they've already had the foundations for it in long abandoned pieces of content, some of them being related to the creativity of the content itself - One of the areas I'd really draw scope here that relates to myself is probably crafting. It's been a dumbed down system, and yet for all its flaws they did show that they could incorporate something fairly interesting, fundamentally (with experts), it just had some really weird execution in that all conditions were beneficial as opposed to detrimental. - I don't really consider that extent of a grind to have some replay value. - All I can really look towards in this direction with Deep Dungeons. It's a fairly simple system that just creeps with difficulty on each subsequent flaw. - Now I would argue this could be improved if they were to not really limit the floor count, but to essentially have the floors much less limited, perhaps 400, 500. They could borrow many mechanics from already pre-existing extreme or savage counters.

Now with this second point I really would be interested to hear your response in that.. What if lost actions and essences weren't necessarily just limited either to Bozja/Eureka. What if this were expanded and introduced with areas such as deep dungeon? They already have the foundations in the game for both of the systems, which in reality by your own admission already effectively addresses the job simplicities you took issue with. The simplicity is only as inhibiting as the creativity of the people creating systems, really. Personally, I wish content like deep dungeon or even Eureka/Bozja would be more akin to something like Dungeoneering from Runescape, where it'd effectively draw from multiple other areas of the game such as fishing for a key or crafting for an item.

The FATEs themselves haven't gotten better, really. But the incentivisation on them has improved significantly, courtesy of the gemstones system, which should also be expanded on. Grinds for better or worse are considered as content, it just depends how superfluous those grinds are as to whether it is detrimental. I don't think the game is quite there yet. They are necessary in some shape or form, especially for subscription based MMOs. For better or worse development time is always a limiting aspect, especially for content and creativity. So you more often than not need to lean on grinding-related activities to keep people enticed.

[Skiros]

Now with this second point I really would be interested to hear your response in that.. What if lost actions and essences weren't necessarily just limited either to Bozja/Eureka. What if this were expanded and introduced with areas such as deep dungeon? They already have the foundations in the game for both of the systems, which in reality by your own admission already effectively addresses the job simplicities you took issue with. The simplicity is only as inhibiting as the creativity of the people creating systems, really. Personally, I wish content like deep dungeon or even Eureka/Bozja would be more akin to something like Dungeoneering from Runescape, where it'd effectively draw from multiple other areas of the game such as fishing for a key or crafting for an item.

I'd be all for this, this would massively increase playability. I hope this is the direction they go for the next deep dungeon and relic zone. Eureka/Lost actions have been one of the best additions to side content in this game in a long while. BLU has also been a great piece of side content, and I'm looking forward to a BLU DF.

[DBriggs304]

People can't even tell anymore...