Warning for "Grief" Tactics?!

[MidnightEquinox]

People with the "that's selfish!" argument are always so weird to me. Most behavior in games is selfish to a fairly high degree and there's nothing wrong with that. If you're not having a good time, and leaving the party would make you feel better, then feel free to leave. Nothing involved is important enough that it's a big deal. Most activities in the world understand and support this because they understand the person's well being trumps some odd notion of whether it's selfish or not.

"It may affect other people negatively" is nowhere near enough reason to avoid doing something.

[dapperfaffer]

All of this because I corrected people on the tos lmao

gatekeeping is serious business

[BigHoffie]

"stop trying to make the ToS fit your narrative",.

He says as he reports people for leaving a duty, which is unequivocally not against the ToS. I really hope you are following through though, and earn a vacation yourself for abuse of the report system. I don't think you are reporting these people, but if being an internet tough guy is that important to you, dont let me stop you.

[IDontPetLalas]

You didn't direct this at me but I'm going to give my take since I do agree with IDontPetLalas on their examples. Sometimes there's someone that just can't stay off the floor and they're affecting your ability to adequately support the rest of the party. In those rare cases, they may need to stay dead until SC and MP allow for a quick raise. I might also consider mechanics coming up that I'm afraid they will raise right into. There is a period of invuln after a raise but a lot of people immediately move and that drops. And then they drop right away again.

In regards to being in Narnia, if I have a ranged or BLM over there and the party is here and needs my support, they may get a pity regen but my place is with the rest of the party and I can't put them at risk if that person chooses to be out of heal range.

How many deaths would it take for you to stop raising someone? I'm only curious, not trying to start anything. It's just that I have no recent memory of anyone dying more than 3 times in any of my parties. I mean, even twice is kind of rare.
I'm not talking about savage/extreme, that's a different story.

People with the "that's selfish!" argument are always so weird to me. Most behavior in games is selfish to a fairly high degree and there's nothing wrong with that. If you're not having a good time, and leaving the party would make you feel better, then feel free to leave. Nothing involved is important enough that it's a big deal. Most activities in the world understand and support this because they understand the person's well being trumps some odd notion of whether it's selfish or not.

"It may affect other people negatively" is nowhere near enough reason to avoid doing something.

The next time someone decides to spin a boss for giggles and cleaves half the party, and keeps doing that, I hope you remember this.

[SturmChurro]

No people are just not painfully oblivious to the simple fact that the OP spent a good part of the original post bashing people for being too coddled and whining about every little slight (..)

I don't care if they're report happy afterwards, and arguably neither does anyone else. You need to have an incredible amount of irony points to write something like this. There's a particular word associated with people that will wilfully engage in the same behaviour that they're noted for criticising other people about.

(..) Just have a certain accountability behind your actions when someone inevitably does report the behaviour, and don't criticise people for the self-same behaviour that you're going to exhibit or engage in. It's really just that simple. It's very bold of you to assume that people are report happy versus people just wanting some level of accountability behind their own actions where appropriate.

Am I wrong though? Like, I mean...

No, no. I haven't actually started reporting anyone in-game for cursing or whatever else. Like I'd actually realistically bother doing that. As I have said time and time again, it was me venting. I was being hyperbolic. I guess I have to put angry face emojis, and whatever else whenever I am being sarcastic or whatever. Speaking on that, this forum has a severe lack of good emojis, unfortunate really. I like emojis.

How can I have "accountability" for my actions when I have no clue what I even did. Was it from me leaving, disconnecting then leaving, no tank stance, "not healing", not having raised somebody?? I have no clue what exactly is being misconstrued as "griefing". I did not go out and intend to "grief" anybody. It's ridiculous. I am confident, because I know I am innocent.

[Kaurhz]

Am I wrong though? Like, I mean...

No, no. I haven't actually started reporting anyone in-game for cursing or whatever else. Like, I'd actually realistically bother doing that. As I have said time and time again, it was me venting. I was being hyperbolic. I guess I have to put angry face emojis, and whatever else whenever I am being sarcastic or whatever. Speaking on that, this forum has a severe lack of good emojis, unfortunate really. I like emojis.

How can I have "accountability" for my actions when I have no clue what I even did. Was it from me leaving, disconnecting then leaving, no tank stance, "not healing", not having raised somebody?? I have no clue what exactly is being misconstrued as "griefing". I did not go out and intend to grief anybody. It's ridiculous. I am confident, because I know I am innocent.

Whether you're incorrect or not and whether I agree with you is irrelevant, and whether you were only merely venting or not is irrelevant. It shown a willingness and to many in this thread arguably only paint you in the 1 light you QUITE clearly dislike being painted.

The only thing I would recommend if you care that much is to file for a data request. They are practically obligated. Unfortunately GMs don't really expand because I would argue they have a very strictly policy, and arguably something that relates to how they use and process data on people. For every report you're dealing with the data of multiple people. Which to people not trained can be in a dangerous position to be in.

Like I said in my original post, just revisit your own actions in the past and think if you could have done something better. If you leave abruptly and disconnect several times (at very inconvenient times) then simply apologise for the instability, if it isn't feasible then communicate that it is better you leave and someone else replaces you . Communication is key and can alleviate a lot of the issues that can be construed as griefing. If you feel eager then review your actions in relation to the Terms of Service and see what can be construed as griefing. Don't just insist that you did absolutely nothing wrong and thus innocent (regardless of whether you are or not). People have been using this excuse on practically every forum since bans became a thing, and more often than not the devil was in the details, and the details that until asked for evidence they so conveniently left out, so there's a negative association there. Don't just insist you're innocent. Chill out, look at it rationally, think what you can do better, keep that in mind in the future and then if you feel the need make a thread with actual issues to try and spark productive debate. Ironically there's already one in your post that I agree with quite a bit.

Is it unfortunate stuff like this exists, sure. But then this comes from a place wherein people use very underhanded tactics to get their own way, so in this regard the playerbase is just reaping what they've sown through their own actions in the past. People speak of "Well I don't wanna lose my account" vibes, and whilst I would agree, in the same vein if rules such as this are going to deter some of the behaviours that were prominent when people got duties they didn't like then I for one toast for that.

[SieyaM]

Is it selfish and nasty to leave a duty when I know I won't be able to perform at my best for whatever reason? Or rather, is it the opposite, when I'd rather a group have someone who won't drag them down. I regularly leave duties when I know that, for whatever reason, I will not be able to perform at my best. Be it through sheer laziness, tiredness, chronic illness flareups, what have you.

Though, just for this, if we ever get in a group together I will be absolutely, possitively, 100% sure to not leave for whatever reason. Even if I have to take my entire PC build with me to the bathroom!!!! Since, y'know. Leaving is selfish. And I definitely don't want to be selfish!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh no!! I can even see the conversation play out now!!!!!

Me: "GTG, stomach stuff srry."
Me: "Oh wait, it's selfish and nasty to leave!!!"
ME: "Give me 30 minutes, I have to unplug my PC and plug it in to the bathroom RQ, just wait right here :P"



People as reactionary as them absolutely hate getting corrected, and will absolutely 100% die on some really, really weird hills.

Well, the other side is that when you leave without any communication whatsoever then you leave it up to the remaining players to infer why you left. That means they can absolutely believe you left because you were running a parser and decided the group was not performing to whatever arbitrary standards you might have set, or you found their glamour ugly and left in disgust.

[Floortank]

If you have ever known someone who worked as a GM or works as a GM you would know how incredibly delusional people are who say GMs don't do anything.

[Sarnai]

But did OP filed the appellation request in the end of the day?

[TaleraRistain]

You try healing a player who stands in aoes one after the other, runs mechanics into other players, runs a stack marker alone to the edge of the arena, gets pushed into spikes, stands next to a tank with a tankbuster, backflips off the side, gets pushed off the side, stands in an instakill mechanic (LoTA, Amon, etc.), etc. Yes, it is their fault.

I've healed all of that and more and I really don't see the big struggle in having to do our role when our party is less than perfect. Does it matter that it's their fault? Not to me. Maybe you just don't have the mentality for being a healer in groups with random matching where unexpected things can occur.