Warning for "Grief" Tactics?!

[Arazehl]

Wow this thread went down a rabbit hole.

[Reality23]

It's part of the healer's job, to a reasonable point, and the "healers who choose not to heal" is very over-exaggerated from what I've seen, aside from very recently the people who recently who are trying out sage. I've really seen more of people assuming that they don't need to use personal mitigation, or just taking avoidable damage.

So what's not usually considered typical to heal through? if someone is standing off in Narnia, or every time the party is standing over HERE they insist on standing over THERE, or even worse is repeatedly standing in aoes, or standing next to the tank and eating TBs (repeatedly), then at a certain point you should be thinking about what you're doing wrong. It's not about punishment someone, or acting like God, it's more about their being rather selfish at that point.

The exception to all of the above is for sprouts or anyone who's new (CS).

I've done all 3 parts of the trinity and I tend to prefer tanking, but I have done my share of healer duty. I think the problem with healers having a bad attitude tends to come from those who get used to high end progression raiding and the attitudes which go with it which tend to be pretty toxic. I don't have the space here for a detailed analysis of the culture and environment, but there is an attitude that many healers can develop that their job is to keep the tank up only, and that DPS or other healers who take damage or die are not their issue due to expecting them to be able to avoid mechanics. Going from high end raiding to a more casual environment can be difficult when people forget that some of those mechanics are hard to avoid, as well designed boss fights make "don't stand in the fire" more difficult than it sounds by design. Fights are generally designed to be beatable by people with sub par skills, but part of what makes them beatable is the healers watching out for the group... which to be fair is harder than just watching a tank so can annoy people.

At any rate I also think a lot of healers get lucky and meet good people to begin with and then see that as the normal situation, so they wind up being shocked when they have to team with more ordinary people. The problem especially exists in games where healers are expected to DPS as well, and a lucky healer gets to run around mostly as second tier DPS for a long time and only do occasional healing, having been there for an emergency they never saw arise. In such cases I can sort of understand the culture shock and resentment of the normal state of affairs, but good healers to be eventually learn and adapt. This might be a big problem with FF 14 because from what I'm reading healers are expected to do 20% of the damage under normal circumstances, and with changes to game design some tanks are healing themselves so well they barely need any watching.

[aveyond-dreams]

Usually I never reach the point where I straight up decide to stop healing when I queue as a healer-if I encounter behavior that I deem unreasonable or not appropriate in current-level duties (not using mitigation, failing to recognize when to use aoes vs single target, etc) then my preference is to just say goodbye and leave.

[Larirawiel]

Ive healed in MMORPG's for about 20 years now. I will never understand those who sign up for the role of healing and then choose to not heal. They say it's not their job to cover for others mistakes...But that is literally a healers job.

Same for me. But i think, reporting people because it seems, that they do not know how to play a healer is exaggerated.


Cheers

[SturmChurro]

Ive healed in MMORPG's for about 20 years now. I will never understand those who sign up for the role of healing and then choose to not heal. They say it's not their job to cover for others mistakes...But that is literally a healers job.

Exactly where did I state I do not heal? I stated it wasn't my job to babysit players. I do heal players, and I do not withhold heals from players. I juggle healing with DPS, some players think I am not healing because they see me casting glare rather than cure 2, but in fact I do have other heals.

I find it hard to believe you considering the fact that you yourself has trolled ppl I know well.

This is news to me.

[LianaThorne]

Tagged wrong, woops.

[Larirawiel]

The report was reviewed by a GM and deemed to violate the ToS.

You do not know whether a GM reviewed it or not. And when you look how enthusiastic the FF14 players usually are when it comes to report other players, i can imagine that they have an automatic account flagging system for that. Otherwise you would need hundreds of GMs to review the reports.



Cheers

[LianaThorne]

You do not know whether a GM reviewed it or not. And when you look how enthusiastic the FF14 players usually are when it comes to report other players, i can imagine that they have an automatic account flagging system for that. Otherwise you would need hundreds of GMs to review the reports.



Cheers

This is false as someone who has recently been in contact with GMs for harassment. They do inform you that they have reviewed it and are investigating and are taking some form of action. What that specifically is, they do not inform you. But outright saying that they don't give you any sort of feedback is a lie.

[SturmChurro]

"If they die it's their fault."

PSA: Standing and watching someone die is your own fault. If you aren't trying to help in some form, I would consider that griefing or just that you have a severe lack of understanding of how to heal.

You try healing a player who stands in aoes one after the other, runs mechanics into other players, runs a stack marker alone to the edge of the arena, gets pushed into spikes, stands next to a tank with a tankbuster, backflips off the side, gets pushed off the side, stands in an instakill mechanic (LoTA, Amon, etc.), etc. Yes, it is their fault.

Anyway, my post history itself confirms that I do actually heal players, when I state things like "having to resort to cure 2" - this means I have used up every single other heal, and I have resorted to casting heals to keep members of my party alive.

[LianaThorne]

You try healing a player who stands in aoes one after the other, runs mechanics into other players, runs a stack marker alone to the edge of the arena, gets pushed into spikes, stands next to a tank with a tankbuster, backflips off the side, gets pushed off the side, stands in an instakill mechanic (LoTA, Amon, etc.), etc. Yes, it is their fault.

Anyway, my post history itself confirms that I do actually heal players, when I state things like "having to resort to cure 2" - this means I have used up every single other heal, and I have resorted to casting heals to keep members of my party alive.

I do. I main Sage and before 6.0 was an AST main. I make every effort to keep people alive, even if they're stepping in stuff. New people exist and need to learn mechs. Some people haven't been around in a while and forget things. I don't think anyone has the brain power to remember every dungeon perfectly. What's your point?

By standing and watching them die, it's your fault. If you try to help and they still die, then it's theirs. If you do nothing, again, that's griefing to me or shows you have a severe lack of understanding of what healing actually is. You kinda have to put in effort.