Warning for "Grief" Tactics?!

[Krotoan]

Unless Sturm was leaving the same group of people over and over again, no one would know what they're up to or how many parties they leave. Most people wouldn't care. In fact, I pray I don't have to be the first person to leave Castrum but I will if I gotta.

Also hi Theo! The gang's all here.

I'm reasonably sure the GM's have access to your actions and logs of people you've interacted with as well as how many times you've incurred the "leaver" debuff. So while the people themseves wouldn't report you for serial leaving, they might submit a report of you leaving THEM.. and then once your history is brought up they'd see "oh.. they leave like 2-8 a day... this might be a thing".

[Theodric]

I dislike the rule against leaving duties. I've never done it myself since I'm stubborn but there's plenty of good reasons I can think of as to why someone may have to leave a number of duties repeatedly within a short period of time through no fault of their own.

[SturmChurro]

Perhaps the constant ditching parties you deem "unfun" as well as your latest actual accidental DC shows a pattern of on purpose/sketchy leaving?

You seem to have a grasp of a lot of the things that COULD have contributed.. the question is will you continue these things knowing they might be part of the case against you?

I don't think you deserve to be banned, or that your warning is warranted since I am not the GM looking into the case nor do I know what they track to "validate" reports....

But if you can think of all these things yet insist on continuing to do them, it's food for thought on who'd be to blame if it progresses further?

Perhaps talking in game is less important or contributory than HOW you play the game?

Yes, I will. SE is in the wrong here. I received a warning for "grief tactics violations" (3.2). I am not "griefing". I play the game the way I enjoy it, and that should be respected. I should be afforded the same protections via the ToS as the players doing nothing. I may leave semi-often, but I receive a penalty most times I do (sometimes someone else leaves). The penalty is my punishment for leaving. My internet cutting out is something I do not have control over.

If they are going to give me a warning over this, then they need to start handing out warnings to players ruining my experience, by wasting everyone's time. Not using aoes, no cds, undergeared, dying constantly.. Or is that just ignored, because FFXIV has such a large population of these sort of players in their community? Why is a player contributing nothing to the rest of the party afforded protections?

[Senn]

Senn, why are you an Elezen anyways???

This is just an alt. I main a male viera of course. And I wouldn't really call it bickering. More like I was being used as a punching bag over the course of two years or so. Something you partook in yourself.

[Krotoan]

Yes, I will. SE is in the wrong here. I received a warning for "grief tactics violations" (3.2). I am not "griefing". I play the game the way I enjoy it, and that should be respected. I should be afforded the same protections via the ToS as the players doing nothing. I may leave semi-often, but I receive a penalty most times I do (sometimes someone else leaves). The penalty is my punishment for leaving. My internet cutting out is something I do not have control over.

If they are going to give me a warning over this, then they need to start handing out warnings to players ruining my experience, by wasting everyone's time. Not using aoes, no cds, undergeared, dying constantly.. Or is that just ignored, because FFXIV has such a large population of these sort of players in their community?

Expecting SE to conform to YOUR idea of what is fair or thinking that what you believe is the "right way" and you expect them to unilaterally punish everyone who's breaking your personal rules as well as the established SE rules to be "fair" is setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment as well as eventual stronger punishments if you continue in your habits that may be incurring you reports. The idea that "I get a leaver punishment and that is enough!" isn't your call to make. Just like "I had to defend myself!" isn't an excuse the GM's accept for abusive chat.


Arguing your point here on the forum is pretty pointless, absolutely none of us have any power over their decisions and neither do the community managers.

I replied to present a possible avenue to NOT lose the resources you've invested in the game at a random point in the future. Your call on what you're going to do.

[kaynide]

If they are going to give me a warning over this, then they need to start handing out warnings to players ruining my experience, by wasting everyone's time. Not using aoes, no cds, undergeared, dying constantly.. Or is that just ignored, because FFXIV has such a large population of these sort of players in their community? Why is a player contributing nothing to the rest of the party afforded protections?

I would say you can and should report players who you feel are being willfully negligent.

That said, if a character can get into some instance at the required iLvl, despite being incredibly weak, they are not “under geared” for the content. I would agree SE can and should do better on tightening gear sync and how they calculate a job… but as is, these players are doing what is allowed in the game. Even if they are naked aside from their weapon.

Regarding the other stuff, it’s really simple: as long as the DPS is DPSing, the Tank Tanking and the Healer Healing, everyone is doing their job according to SE…even if it agonizingly slow.

You are allowed to leave if their play style doesn’t match, but if you refuse to do the role you signed up for, there can be a reportable problem. I believe that your healing situation could be the problem here, not the fact that you leave parties.

[SturmChurro]

Expecting SE to conform to YOUR idea of what is fair or thinking that what you believe is the "right way" and you expect them to unilaterally punish everyone who's breaking your personal rules as well as the established SE rules to be "fair" is setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment as well as eventual stronger punishments if you continue in your habits that may be incurring you reports. The idea that "I get a leaver punishment and that is enough!" isn't your call to make. Just like "I had to defend myself!" isn't an excuse the GM's accept for abusive chat.


Arguing your point here on the forum is pretty pointless, absolutely none of us have any power over their decisions and neither do the community managers.

I replied to present a possible avenue to NOT lose the resources you've invested in the game at a random point in the future. Your call on what you're going to do.

I'd rather quit the game entirely than conform to some whiners idea of how I "should" be playing the game. I couldn't care less about them, or their opinions. They should respect others, and learn how to actually play the game. I'm tired of it. I shouldn't be forced to coddle players, or be shackled inside an instance when there is a leaver penalty. If there is a leaver penalty that IS the punishment. If they are going to start imposing warnings or strikes on a player's account over leaving, then they need to remove the leaver penalty.

What community managers are we talking about here? I wasn't aware we even had any. This is a vent thread, that's all.

I am incredibly annoyed at receiving a warning for something I didn't do. It's ridiculous that a person's account that they have spent considerable amounts of money on can be in jeopardy over a playstyle. I do take any report against me due to some temper tantrum someone threw as a personal attack. Reporting someone is done with the intention of getting a player banned, and I do not take that well.

[Arazehl]

People leaving because they didn't get the desired dungeon for their roulette is wrong and should be a violation. Had three false starts in a row, in Castrum yesterday, which one was a wipe. I've never wipe in Castrum ever and now all the sudden players are trying to manipulate which dungeon they get?

Whatever OP did or didn't do, just know, that GM's see everything. They have your logs on all chat, trades, how you DC if it's a 90k and which kind. Your warning will fall off your account after 3 years. I think SE explained this with their last policy update.

[SturmChurro]

I do not even do MSQ roulette, and anyway, for that matter, if SE wants people to stop leaving the undesirable duties maybe they should FIX THEIR DESIGN. I'm sick and tired of many wanting some sort of vengeance towards other players, because they didn't get their way. Like this stuff about the raid roulette, and everything else. Always calling to get players banned over something petty. God, I am so sick of it.

The ToS is being weaponized.

[Vahlnir]

People leaving because they didn't get the desired dungeon for their roulette is wrong and should be a violation. Had three false starts in a row, in Castrum yesterday, which one was a wipe. I've never wipe in Castrum ever and now all the sudden players are trying to manipulate which dungeon they get?

Whatever OP did or didn't do, just know, that GM's see everything. They have your logs on all chat, trades, how you DC if it's a 90k and which kind. Your warning will fall off your account after 3 years. I think SE explained this with their last policy update.

The 30 minute penalty is punishment enough. And unless it was an intentional d/c to avoid doing the dungeon then nothing needs to change. Also, people have been opting for Praetorium since...forever. It didn't suddenly start happening. Can't really fault them much since Castrum gives significantly less exp for the roulette.