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  1. #551
    Player
    Teno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    858
    Character
    Teno Gestalt
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SieyaM View Post
    Here is a hot take. The convenience of being able to change to any job on your character at any time has made it impossible for your character to have any real identity. You are forever just the generic WoL.
    I think the opposite, since you don't need a separate random alt you don't identify to to play something different. It's all on the same and you mold it to your liking.
    (4)

  2. #552
    Player
    ZephyrMenodora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,281
    Character
    Zephyr Menodora
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SieyaM View Post
    Here is a hot take. The convenience of being able to change to any job on your character at any time has made it impossible for your character to have any real identity. You are forever just the generic WoL.
    Completely disagree as a roleplayer. Being able to change jobs has made my character quite Unique. Note that I do not actually have my WoL learn every job in the game for RP purposes - as I can separate that out and it would be quite the Mary-Sue (more than they already are) if they were adept at literally everything.

    He began as a White Mage for reasons I came up with for his backstory. Due to something important that happens in Shadowbringers, he found himself taking up the Axe as a Warrior. By Endwalker, due to how much he's been through he took a liking to being a Reaper.

    In other MMOs I cannot have my character grow or express other talents without rerolling- in which case they then have forgotten their entire prior history since I had to reroll to change classes.

    --------
    Even narratively having all classes makes sense. The WoL is written to be an "Adventurer" who befriends and interacts with people and cultures all over the world. That he or she is willing to maybe learn from these diverse peoples and adopt parts of their styles here and there IS the character.
    (7)
    Last edited by ZephyrMenodora; 03-03-2022 at 07:37 AM.

  3. #553
    Player
    SieyaM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    1,183
    Character
    Sieya Mizuno
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora View Post
    Completely disagree as a roleplayer. Being able to change jobs has made my character quite Unique. Note that I do not actually have my WoL learn every job in the game for RP purposes - as I can separate that out and it would be quite the Mary-Sue (more than they already are) if they were adept at literally everything.

    He began as a White Mage for reasons I came up with for his backstory. Due to something important that happens in Shadowbringers, he found himself taking up the Axe as a Warrior. By Endwalker, due to how much he's been through he took a liking to being a Reaper.

    In other MMOs I cannot have my character grow or express other talents without rerolling- in which case they then have forgotten their entire prior history since I had to reroll to change classes.

    --------
    Even narratively having all classes makes sense. The WoL is written to be an "Adventurer" who befriends and interacts with people and cultures all over the world. That he or she is willing to maybe learn from these diverse peoples and adopt parts of their styles here and there IS the character.
    The disconnect for me is that I am never really anything if I can be everything. Right now my job is Summoner but I can be an Astrologian in the very next scene. The only other MMO I can really compare to is EQ since it is the only other one I played at length, but in there my character was an Enchanter through and through. I began as one and everything I did in that world was as one. Sure I can practice discipline and restrict myself as I want but that doesn't do much to change the world around my character since they all have to treat me like I am any possible job at any time.
    (1)

  4. #554
    Player
    ZephyrMenodora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,281
    Character
    Zephyr Menodora
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SieyaM View Post
    The disconnect for me is that I am never really anything if I can be everything. Right now my job is Summoner but I can be an Astrologian in the very next scene. The only other MMO I can really compare to is EQ since it is the only other one I played at length, but in there my character was an Enchanter through and through. I began as one and everything I did in that world was as one. Sure I can practice discipline and restrict myself as I want but that doesn't do much to change the world around my character since they all have to treat me like I am any possible job at any time.
    It's really your choice to play like that, and easily fixed in performing story quests as a specific class if you want some level of coherency.

    Having access to many class options as the same character just means you have to take more ownership as to how you craft your character's journey. If anything this really offers more storytelling opportunities for your character than less, as in other MMOs where you are one class. Not everyone can handle that well, though.

    As far as MMO stories go, most are not designed around a class if the game offers like 12+ classes. The story is typically written generic enough for the player to insert their version of the Hero into them. Elder Scrolls Online for example doesn't even have class-specific story quests like we get in FFXIV (nor does your char even need to use any of their class skills at all either).
    (6)
    Last edited by ZephyrMenodora; 03-03-2022 at 08:00 AM.

  5. #555
    Player
    Minarisweet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    342
    Character
    Ara Amai
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by LukaRoselia View Post
    Endwalker is the least enjoyable expansion with the worst story.

    Can already hear the mob.
    Storywise... I can't really agree cuz arr and stormblood exist.

    Gameplaywise I feel like so far its just been shadowbringers 2 which wasn't exactly good either...

    This is kind of a warm take for me but I understand where you're coming from.
    (5)

  6. #556
    Player
    Esmoire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Gold Saucer
    Posts
    1,123
    Character
    Mei Coincounter
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Dark Knight quests are some of the most cringe-inducing quests I've had to sit through. I actually think the core lore part of them being kind of a force of justice where the institution of justice itself fails is actually cool, though the way your character is portrayed doesn't sit well with me.

    I don't feel that way about my WoL at all. Yeah she puts herself into danger a lot, yeah she has almost died a lot, yeah she is doing chores a lot... Something like PTSD from combat scenario I don't think any of us can really fully appreciate unless you actively find yourself in life-and-death situations every day. That said as someone who seems pretty comfortable going to a foreign land to become an adventurer (an extremely dangerous job), who from the start of the game is remarkably gleeful and relaxed, up until now, I really don't think that weighs on her. Tedium of being everyone's errand girl? I mean you are getting paid pretty well, have Tataru to wipe your arse for you and take care of your accounting, get to travel more than almost anyone in the world. I really don't see any of what the DRK quests presents as being merited.

    Won't say it's the worst; it at least had the gall to try to say something. Some job quests couldn't do even that much, and in the context of how much story there is in FFXIV I rather have something that didn't sit well with me but is interesting than something that is boring.
    (6)

  7. #557
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by SieyaM View Post
    Here is a hot take. The convenience of being able to change to any job on your character at any time has made it impossible for your character to have any real identity. You are forever just the generic WoL.
    One of the best QoL that I personally don't really want to do without.... Though I suppose I can see how some people might have that turn into an identity crisis lol.

    I do wonder how well an alt, star wars-like, system could do though. With the system designed from the ground up to be very smooth between 'alt's to the point it's not really logging in and out. Can use the family tree like concept or you might even have a more of Planescape Torment / Numenera nameless one / multi-faced god kind of concept, story, inventory, and such being a smooth transition between them.

    Then again that seems like a lot of work to force identity, I wonder how many have this problem (I don't feel that way and generally have a hard time wanting to level alternate jobs in other mmos that require multiple accounts because I know I will be forced to do the progression steps I've already done and dont want to do again).
    (0)
    Last edited by Shougun; 03-03-2022 at 08:38 AM.

  8. #558
    Player
    Jirah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    1,867
    Character
    Jira Dal'riata
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    The game has atrocious game design in terms of content and the only reason why the community tolerates it is because of two reasons: their irrational attachment to the game and yoship as a patron saint & playing a game where it’s flawed is better than addressing said flaws as it destroys the immersive experience of playing a “good game”

    Content is stagnate and they literally haven’t done anything new with trials/dungeons/raids in a very long time and in some cases like dungeons they've regressed. And their highly lucrative position of accessibility will destroy the games staying power in the future as these enormous waste of creativity poured into each instance is moot when the content itself barely tickles you
    (17)

  9. #559
    Player
    BaconBits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    1,535
    Character
    Arya Diavolos
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 98
    Sometimes, it is okay to gatekeep.
    (12)

  10. #560
    Player
    SieyaM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    1,183
    Character
    Sieya Mizuno
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora View Post
    It's really your choice to play like that, and easily fixed in performing story quests as a specific class if you want some level of coherency.

    Having access to many class options as the same character just means you have to take more ownership as to how you craft your character's journey. If anything this really offers more storytelling opportunities for your character than less, as in other MMOs where you are one class. Not everyone can handle that well, though.

    As far as MMO stories go, most are not designed around a class if the game offers like 12+ classes. The story is typically written generic enough for the player to insert their version of the Hero into them. Elder Scrolls Online for example doesn't even have class-specific story quests like we get in FFXIV (nor does your char even need to use any of their class skills at all either).
    The other barrier this system places is that some jobs you cannot be for your entire journey. If you go back and do New Game+ you can, but there are a lot of jobs now that just are not available until you reach an expansion. Thinking a little more it's also about feeling like my character really worked to reach the level they are at in their class or job. For instance when you changed jobs for the next expansion, you didn't start at level 1 and work your way up from there in the perspective of the narrative, you showed up as a level 50 or 60 job with a slew of skills and abilities that as far as anyone in the MSQ is concerned you just knew. When I became and AST for HW I had to be level 50 before starting any story content and my journey getting there with that job was a disconnected roulette spam that was completely removed from how I arrived in Ishgard.
    (1)

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