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  1. #1701
    Player
    Absurdity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    2,950
    Character
    Tiana Vestoria
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post
    Stormblood set a bad precedent for WAR, as it had been dubbed too OP in HW and they decided to give its stance swapping a severe penalty. Players were outraged, so the Devs took away the penalty. Players then began to complain about truly banal irritations with the job, saying it was too hard to get its entire burst off etc. So come SHB, they altered Inner Release, and pretty much introduced us to the dull, two combo, Storm's Path oriented WAR we have today.

    God I miss Butcher's Block.
    Inner Release was changed way before ShB, in 4.2, from 120s recast, 20s duration, 50% Beast Gauge reduction to the 90s recast, 10s duration, 100% Beast Gauge reduction and 100% critical direct hit.
    All Shadowbringers did was staple the Storm's Eye extension to it.

    And arguably people weren't wrong about pre-4.2 Warrior. You had to spend 2 minutes building up to your Inner Release+Berserk burst to get your big 6 Fell Cleaves, Upheaval and like 2 Onslaughts and any kind of downtime would throw a wrench into it, back when melees still had a lot more downtime and during a raid tier where the last boss reset aggro, forcing you to build up enmity again which completely threw off your expected Beast Gauge gain.
    (1)
    Last edited by Absurdity; 03-04-2024 at 10:49 AM.

  2. #1702
    Player
    Vyrerus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Interdimensional Rift
    Posts
    3,586
    Character
    Vicious Zvahl
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Absurdity View Post
    Inner Release was changed way before ShB, in 4.2, from 120s recast, 20s duration, 50% Beast Gauge reduction to the 90s recast, 10s duration, 100% Beast Gauge reduction and 100% critical direct hit.
    All Shadowbringers did was staple the Storm's Eye extension to it.

    And arguably people weren't wrong about pre-4.2 Warrior. You had to spend 2 minutes building up to your Inner Release+Berserk burst to get your big 6 Fell Cleaves, Upheaval and like 2 Onslaughts and any kind of downtime would throw a wrench into it, back when melees still had a lot more downtime and during a raid tier where the last boss reset aggro, forcing you to build up enmity again which completely threw off your expected Beast Gauge gain.
    Everything after 4.1 is a blur to me. But thanks for the reminder. Whenever it was that they rolled Berserk into Inner Release was a dogshit tier update to WAR, and I hated it.
    (1)

    (Signature portrait by Amaipetisu)

    "I thought that my invincible power would hold the world captive, leaving me in a freedom undisturbed. Thus night and day I worked at the chain with huge fires and cruel hard strokes. When at last the work was done and the links were complete and unbreakable, I found that it held me in its grip." - Rabindranath Tagore

  3. #1703
    Player
    Absurdity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    2,950
    Character
    Tiana Vestoria
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post
    Everything after 4.1 is a blur to me. But thanks for the reminder. Whenever it was that they rolled Berserk into Inner Release was a dogshit tier update to WAR, and I hated it.
    At the time I didn't mind it, it made the job more usable without having to map out the entire fight and Warrior's gameplay still had some nuance to it. Optimizing your Deliverance crit buff through gauge management, minimizing Storm's Eye uses while making sure you had at least 17 seconds left on the buff when you went into IR, GCD manipulation with Onslaught and knowing when to use Infuriate so you never accidentally overcapped or wasted cooldown reduction during IR.

    But had I known that 4.2 was the beginning of what would eventually lead to current Warrior I would've been livid.

    I actually still have the 4.0/4.1 guide document for the job, it's a nice throwback. Especially the "When everything goes to shit" section and the "Raid Buffs" section not showing 120s on everything.
    (1)
    Last edited by Absurdity; 03-04-2024 at 11:07 AM.

  4. #1704
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,369
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    WAR is just a collective insult to the entire game at this point and I hate how many people are willing to defend it from both ends

    Casuals- hahaha healing go brrrrr
    Raiders- why you angry at casual content WAR is only 50% too strong in savage that’s not that bad
    (4)

  5. #1705
    Player
    Rithy255's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    1,841
    Character
    Rithris Amaya
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    WAR is just a collective insult to the entire game at this point and I hate how many people are willing to defend it from both ends

    Casuals- hahaha healing go brrrrr
    Raiders- why you angry at casual content WAR is only 50% too strong in savage that’s not that bad
    I agree, I don't even mind the self healing, but its the fact how effective it is in AOE (Per enemy needs to go) also how it has group and target healing better then a Paladin... Warrior to me doesn't even fit its job fantasy its just boring and gets everything other tanks get but better, Wouldn't be surprised if they gave warrior a second aoe mitigation, but it's not only if you can position it like PLD's at this point

    Personally I think Tanks & Healers Need a rebalance, Both should Work together Instead of having a tank be able to solo stuff without losing any damage at all for it. I think partly they need to increase the general damage tanks take, reduce some self healing, focus on Tanks & Healers having fun Damage buttons while also making Utility kits at least a bit more intresting then they do.. with utility/defensives I'm starting to think Less is more.
    (1)

  6. #1706
    Player
    ReynTime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,677
    Character
    Princess Walk
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    Well on that topic, my own hot take is at this point not many jobs in XIV fit their fantasy, nor match their classic gameplay styles. Healers and tanks specially.

    DRK for example was stripped off its trademark mechanic to be turned into an edgy parody of itself.
    (4)

  7. #1707
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,369
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    I agree with that

    SCH’s descent from a “bag of tricks” battle tactician to an “UWU fairy mage” pains me to this day
    (5)

  8. #1708
    Player
    Rein_eon_Osborne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Shadowflare - Ward Miasma II, Plot Broil IV
    Posts
    3,840
    Character
    Mira Clearweaver
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Gordita View Post
    Counterpoint , warrior is for people who can't tank effectively so they have to use game breaking self heals that have no business being part of a barbaric, viking style, axe wielding, basket case's skill kit.
    Spoilers: many of those WARs still can't play effectively even with their game breaking self heals. Mostly the ones that pops BW the moment their health drops to 80%. They are still getting carried by the other 3 players.

    The bar is really low.
    (2)

  9. #1709
    Player
    Oizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Location
    playing other games like yoshida intended
    Posts
    2,294
    Character
    Alondite Ragnell
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne View Post
    Spoilers: many of those WARs still can't play effectively even with their game breaking self heals. Mostly the ones that pops BW the moment their health drops to 80%. They are still getting carried by the other 3 players.

    The bar is really low.
    WAR actually doesn't teach you to play well.

    Proper tanking focuses entirely on preemptive mitigation, using your mitigation at low health does nothing because there's nothing to defend after all. This is true of all tanks but especially Dark Knight.
    WAR has a very strong feedback loop for Regenerating health, so a lot of players are going to take damage raw on WAR and try to regen it back. This is completely viable in normal content, and feels more effective than standard tanking.

    That style of WAR completely falls off in high end content, because high end content tbs will just kill you unmitigated.
    You end up with a lot of WAR players who don't know how to mitigate well.

    I also think its why Dark Knight gets such a weird rep, people buy into the idea that it just plays like WAR, go to play it and then just eat shit because Dark Knight simply can't do the regen health after damage loop.
    So obviously the job is bad and it has nothing to do with the fact you're trying to play Dark Knight like Warrior.
    (0)

  10. #1710
    Player
    Raoabolic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    2,004
    Character
    Raogrimm Ironfist
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Hot take?
    This game is going down the path of WoW in terms of gameplay and the direction the game is going. All we need is a 9.1.5. nuclear disaster at this point, lol.
    (6)

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