White Mage Band-Aid Suggestions

[RinaShinomiya]

Probably because lilies can be thrown away for Misery (which decentivizes the skill as a healing tool) and not being able to use lilies/misery out of combat feels even weirder.

I don't think it'd be that big of an issue. You don't use AF/Addersgall skills out of combat either because out of combat HP/MP regen kicks in.

[AnotherPerson]

I don't think it'd be that big of an issue. You don't use AF/Addersgall skills out of combat either because out of combat HP/MP regen kicks in.

But that is where the difference lies. AF/Addersgall can be saved out of combat because they have no DPS resource directly tied to their usage until in combat, but Lilies become a DPS gain when used outside of combat. If that was the case, the norm would be to just throw away all your lilies if you start with 3 stacks to start off with Misery in your opener, so you'd be left in the same location as not having lilies anyway.

[RinaShinomiya]

But that is where the difference lies. AF/Addersgall can be saved out of combat because they have no DPS resource directly tied to their usage until in combat, but Lilies become a DPS gain when used outside of combat. If that was the case, the norm would be to just throw away all your lilies if you start with 3 stacks to start off with Misery in your opener, so you'd be left in the same location as not having lilies anyway.

If nothing was changed then yes but i was implying that using lilies out of combat wouldn't feed into misery just how using cards out of combat doesn't feed into the seals gauge. That way you start with 3 heals ready to go and still can optimize by blowing Lillies during a fight downtime.

[AnotherPerson]

If nothing was changed then yes but i was implying that using lilies out of combat wouldn't feed into misery just how using cards out of combat doesn't feed into the seals gauge. That way you start with 3 heals ready to go and still can optimize by blowing Lillies during a fight downtime.

That's even more reasons why to never use the lily gauge - as it stands currently, it's a DPS loss to use during combat, and not all situations have downtime where you can't hit the enemy to start throwing away your gauge. Simply having three charges on start of combat doesn't do anything for White Mage because you would still have to wait for people to take damage before it suddenly becomes useful. That pretty much means you'd be overcapping for the beginning of the fight - which also incentivizes bad design if you can't throw away lilies at the beginning of the fight when healing isn't necessary to build for misery.

This is also where addersgall and Aetherflow differ from lilies - mainly because their oGCDs are tied to ways that can be effective at full HP or near full HP - Sacred Soil / Kerachole / Excogitation. This is innately because the skills used are delayed healing skills or heals over time. Burning a lily isn't equivalent since you'd be mostly wasting the skill when near full HP because the skill can only heal raw HP immediately, and because it's also a GCD action.

At least for cards currently, it's such a minor DPS gain for getting 3 seals in Astrodyne (where your RNG doesn't guarantee you can get 2 or 3 different seals) that it doesn't really matter whether or not you play during combat or not as Divination has no longer been tied to the seal mechanic.

Edit: To clarify, I meant playing a card out of combat as in - a second or two before Combat starts and the using the buff hasn't registered to gain a seal, not playing it and wasting half the buff. Ideally you wouldn't waste it in general, but Astrodyne's main function is really for MP upkeep atm if anything. The increased self spell speed and atk/healing buff is very marginal in what it can do as opposed to a huge potency change like lilies.

[RinaShinomiya]

That's even more reasons why to never use the lily gauge - as it stands currently, it's a DPS loss to use during combat, and not all situations have downtime where you can't hit the enemy to start throwing away your gauge. Simply having three charges on start of combat doesn't do anything for White Mage because you would still have to wait for people to take damage before it suddenly becomes useful. That pretty much means you'd be overcapping for the beginning of the fight - which also incentivizes bad design if you can't throw away lilies at the beginning of the fight when healing isn't necessary to build for misery.

Again you keep arguing with an unchanged system. Ofc Lilies would be made DPS neutral if there was such radical change in usage.
Using lilies during downtime exclusively is a awful system and it has no excuse to keep being that way.

[AnotherPerson]

Again you keep arguing with an unchanged system. Ofc Lilies would be made DPS neutral if there was such radical change in usage.
Using lilies during downtime exclusively is a awful system and it has no excuse to keep being that way.

No offense to you, I get a bit wordy at times so lemme break down what I've been saying down a bit since I think my meaning has been lost.

1. GCD DPS Neutral lilies are good.

2. GCD DPS Neutral lilies that starts at 3 charges are good, but will most likely be thrown away for Misery since healing isn't required at all times.

3. GCD DPS Neutral lilies that starts at 3 charges that cannot be thrown away out of combat to charge for Misery causes the same issue as SCH without Energy Drain with excess aetherflow happen to WHM in the opener. The risk-reward has been lowered, but it's basically becomes an optimization issue that lowers skill ceiling since there's less flexibility in how you want to spend excess healing power when healing isn't necessary. Now, you spend 3 lilies in your opener for Misery to catch more damage in raid buffs. In that case, you still throw away lilies in combat rather than outside of combat. The only difference that changed is the amount of DPS you gained, but the idea of gaining 3 charges of lilies to heal at the start of combat pretty much doesn't apply here.

4. GCD DPS Neutral lilies at 3 charges that cannot be thrown away out of combat to charge for Misery makes dungeon experience worse. Optimization in raids work with GCD DPS Neutral lilies because you can optimize the HP/MP/DPS/GCD gains over a long course of a fight, but this sort of change doesn't address the issue of having a WAR tank being able to self heal themselves in a dungeon and you not needing to use your lilies during combat because your oGCDs healing can cover what the WAR cannot. Spending lilies in dungeons doesn't always save you HP or MP because you can just restore MP and HP out of combat while running to the next pull in a dungeon. It doesn't remove the issue of just ... throwing away lilies for the sake of getting Misery. That reduces optimization in my opinion. The skill floor has been completely flatlined with the skill ceiling in this case that there's barely any decision making when you're overgeared. To me, lowering optimization only stagnates the job.

Summarizing 1 to 4: Using lilies during downtime exclusively is an awful system, but so is using lilies exclusively for the sake of activating Misery when healing is not required.

[Liam_Harper]

I've mentioned it before, but as much as players love their big 900+ potency numbers, a simple change for lilies would be to make Afflatus heals drain aether from the nearest target within 25y in the form of 310 potency damage instead. This makes each Afflatus heal dps neutral. You aren't forced to hold them for downtime or raid buffs.

Once you've drained Aether 3 times, the Blood Lily blooms which grants access to a 310 potency aoe with no fall off that also heals all allies within 25y for 1000 heal potency. This will cost 3 charges, but you can hold up to 5 for some flexibility. This would fix the current issues with Misery, while keeping in line with the Blood Lily identity and giving WHM a much needed big heal for the toolkit.

Additionally we should get 1-2 more Afflatus heals to keep up with other healers.