Bring back Aggro, resource management, bring back consequences!

[ForteNightshade]

Maybe in extreme content. Oh but I was a bad tank that used my aggro combo so my opinion is already discarded anyway what was I thinking.

What is even truth anyway when people seem to have their own version of it across different modes?

That's the issue though. Using your aggro combo usually meant you were noticeably undergeared relative to your DPS, the party wasn't using their aggro tools or you lacked a Ninja. It was almost never a tank specific mechanic they thought about. Even if you did have to aggro combo, I don't see how that radically changes anything. You use the combo once, maybe twice in the entire fight and never think about it again.

More often than not, it caused many DPS deaths as they refused to press Diversion as "aggro is a tank's job!!!!!" I don't miss that whining for a second.

Tanking was certainly much more fun back then as well. I really liked the tank stances. It was a good way to make tanking accessible but still allow players to improve themselves. Newer or less skilled players could simply stay in defensive stance. While damage stance would allow more experienced players to be rewarded with a higher damage output for being able to better manage their aggro. On top of all that, the removal of tank stance is what gutted WAR to be the in the miserable state it is in now. Tanking was just better back then. I found everything about the game more fun back then.

The problem was it never actually functioned like a reward but rather a punishment due to FF being a damage centric game above all else. There was never any tangible benefit to sitting in tank stance throughout the fight but there was a massive detriment. You were throwing away upwards 1,000+ damage for basically nothing. For perspective sake, tank stance was the equivalent of permanent Weakness. Now the trade off was supposed to be that taking less damage meant things were easier but that isn't how encounters are designed. None of the Stormblood fights did remotely enough damage to warrant using it outside of a very brief aggro grab—if that. Even Ultimate didn't require it, though UCoB certain made a more convincing argument than Savage ever did.

Put simply, tank stance only punished inexperienced players with a massive damage penalty.

Furthermore, Warrior wasn't gutted because tank stances were removed. You never touched Inner Beast outside one day prog. Warrior has essentially been the same job since the 4.2 rework introduced Inner Release.

[Superskull85]

Aside from HP, modern-day resources have largely become specific to the job you are playing. In general, this is because each job wants to use resources in different ways making it hard to maintain a statically typed resource. MP is also effectively trending its way out of the battle system too.

Considering that in it's peak MP was used by: PLD, DRK, BRD, SMN, BLM, and healers. It lost BRD with the changes to its songs but gained RDM. However, BLM effectively doesn't use MP since it innately levels itself out. PLD barely used (and uses) it, and DRK just siphons it and innately levels it like BLM. RDM for most of its lifespan hardly worried about MP unless it became a raise turret. In its DoT peak, SMN was left as the only damage dealing job that made thoughtful and careful use of MP over a long period. Healers (mostly to this day) are much like BLM in that their job auto levels their MP using their job mechanics (there are outliers, yes).

In the modern game, PLD really doesn't need to worry about MP at all unless for some reason it needs to become a holy healer turret. DRK and BLM auto-level their MP usage. Healers, in general, have MP management tools in place that sustain them (again, some outliers). This leaves RDM and SMN, but as long as Lucid Dreaming is used frequently their MP usage is much like BLM. On death, only healers will majorly struggle coming back to full usefulness for their role solely due to MP. Even when RDM and SMN become raise turrets that will not cut them off from doing damage due to low MP, they simply can no longer continue as a raise turret.

I may be oversimplifying and stretching some points, but the main takeaway is that jobs are moving away from statically typed resources to dynamically typed resources that are specific to their job. This is very evident based on the continued explosion of job gauges and resources. So, instead of bringing back the staticness of TP and aggro, perhaps suggest ideas that are more specific to the jobs these resources used to affect and make them rewarding for that job's system.

No one really cares for the TP system because it worked the same way for all tanks, melee DPS, and ranged physical DPS. It restricted them all equally too. Aggro was a function of specific combos but also relied on other party members doing something that only benefited the performance of a tank (which also included melee DPS and ranged physical DPS casting "aggro shrouds" on others). Instead, maybe a PLD has to use various oaths for future attacks (alongside sword oaths). Or maybe increased aggro is a result of using a Fell Cleave on WAR. For resource management in general, Square Enix could easily keep developing the specific job resources already in place and expand them to more actions with increased benefits and rewards for that specific job.

I can easily see MP removed in a future X.0 release replacing it with more burden on job-specific resources.

[Shurrikhan]

I can easily see MP removed in a future X.0 release replacing it with more burden on job-specific resources.

If it does, I'd hardly mind outside of the simply fact that yet more information will likely be excluded from our party UI.

With Stormblood release: Does my SCH have AF left? No idea.

Following this: Can my other healer even hard-rez? No idea.

[deadman1204]

Honestly, most tanks are too bad to handle that.
Its still not uncommon to die as a healer because the tanks can't do agro. Lets not even get into their inability to manage their damage pulling half the damage and then just afking hoping the healer fixes everything.

[Arohk]

Aggro management is an outdated and annoying mechanic, no thanks.

[MerlinCross]

Aggro management is an outdated and annoying mechanic, no thanks.

I’ll take it over feeling like a target dummy could do my work. Just program in it to do defense CD at these points and let it go.

Like you don’t need to give me aggro just give me something to worry about that doesn’t ruin the run. Savage isn’t the answer here anymore than it is over on the healers being bored.

I asked this before; what enjoyment do people get out of tanking these days, I’m curious cause it seems I’m just missing something here.

[AziraSyuren]

I’ll take it over feeling like a target dummy could do my work. Just program in it to do defense CD at these points and let it go.

Like you don’t need to give me aggro just give me something to worry about that doesn’t ruin the run. Savage isn’t the answer here anymore than it is over on the healers being bored.

I asked this before; what enjoyment do people get out of tanking these days, I’m curious cause it seems I’m just missing something here.

I just like being a tank. It's not that complicated. I don't need mechanics that vanish at higher levels of play to have fun. Being able to maintain control of a situation is fun enough on its own.

[Haventale]

I started playing in 4.2 so that’s my point of reference. I still prefer pretty much everything about how gameplay/jobs worked in SB.

I remember when they announced they were removing TP I was like, well, okay… but why aren’t they removing MP too then? It’s literally the exact same thing? And I still feel that way. If they’re going to remove and/or decrease resource management across the board like they did with ShB, then why not just get rid of MP as well? It’s a pointless resource now.

Literally the only two jobs in the game now that actually have to at least sort of manage their MP are DRK and BLM, both of which could easily have their own custom job gauges to maintain.

PLD just uses it to do a combo that never conflicts with anything, this has nothing to manage. Or to spam a heal that should only ever be used if all healers and raisers are dead in dungeon content. Again, if it was really important they could have their own custom joh gauge, like a Spirit Energy or something.

Everyone else just pushes Lucid Dreaming if they get to half MP. That’s not difficult. It requires no thought, and no consequence, it’s just a single fix-all button you press sometimes. It’s not compelling in any way, it’s just boring. Why have a resource bar that only 3 out of 19 jobs even have to think about?

Tanking was certainly much more fun back then as well. I really liked the tank stances. It was a good way to make tanking accessible but still allow players to improve themselves. Newer or less skilled players could simply stay in defensive stance. While damage stance would allow more experienced players to be rewarded with a higher damage output for being able to better manage their aggro. On top of all that, the removal of tank stance is what gutted WAR to be the in the miserable state it is in now. Tanking was just better back then. I found everything about the game more fun back then.

[Marxam]

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if in future expansions, enmity was just baked into the tank mastery trait and they changed tank stances to be DPS stances because newer players can't seem to grasp the idea of pressing one button to gain aggro.

I think the game moved past the point of 2.0-4.2 tank design. At this point I would just like to see auto cleaves from bosses again to teach dps to respect the front of the boss and to teach tanks how to face the boss away from the party.

Multiple things are to blame with how easy and simple tanking has become at the cost of accessibility but I think better tool tips would help as the first step. An instance at like lvl 30 that "tests" you current job role would go a long way in acclimating newer players. Nothing crazy just a simple game of hold aggro and keep mobs away from a target.

[Undeadfire]

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if in future expansions, enmity was just baked into the tank mastery trait and they changed tank stances to be DPS stances because newer players can't seem to grasp the idea of pressing one button to gain aggro.

Tell that to cure 1 spammers who still insist Freecure is good.