Bring back Aggro, resource management, bring back consequences!

[aveyond-dreams]

There is a reason why the game is no longer the way it used to be back in those days, and we're better off for it. If tanking was still in the state that it was back in Stormblood I would not even consider touching the role at all, whereas these days I'm comfortable running things as a tank. Having tanks yell at me to use Diversion was also something I won't miss, and TP gating not only sprint but massively hindering melee aoe attacks was extremely unfun.

General combat is the best it's ever been because we are no longer punished so severely for the mistakes we make. If you want hard and unforgiving stakes, savage and extremes are right there as an option.

[Seraphor]

Nah.

Insufficient aggro generation meant dps needed to use aggro dumps.
That removes agency from the tank. It's no longer your fault, or within your control, if the dps steal aggro.
And if aggro management ever conflicted with optimal dps output, as it did with the old tank/dps stances, then it becomes an obsolete system.

[LittleImp]

Aggro management was a pointless mechanic. It wasn't even remotely relevant in skilled groups who could pull off the incredible maneuver of pushing 1 oGCD every-so-often. It basically just became an annoyance in bad groups, where you had moutbreathing dps that didn't have diversion on their bar and would hit you with the amazing "I shouldn't have to use it, just do more aggro combos".

[Nepharius]

Imo aggro should not be a battle amongst your fellow party members but instead a battle with the enemy. Aggro resets, powerful adds, rapid aggro degeneration, debuffs to building aggro, are all ways of keeping threat management a PVE endeavor and not a source of toxicity. Imagine relative threat based damage, a tank far and away with enmity would be killed where another juggling their stance would not. Or building aggro through other means, like killing an add, attacking the boss' summoner/master, proximity, or simply being in the boss' line of sight passively generates it.

I agree aggro management should play a larger role but the HW method, despite the tools given to us did not feel cooperative. At best it was a chore and at worst it tore apart groups.

[DarkDredgen]

I'm torn between it too, kinda fun as a tank I guess, pain in the arse as a DPS/Healers.

Every now and then, I still begin pulling aggro on blm now, in 90 dungeon wall to wall too. Often see yellow and sometimes orange. If we had the old aggro mechanisms in place those would be mass pulls for sure.

I think it allows for synergy between new players and old players in the more mundane duties, which I am thankful for. Stops the dungeon turning into a complete cluster...you know what, and allows people to just get on with it.

[Hysorn]

I mean, I would take anything that made tanking less of a chore in dungeons and raids/trials once you are past the learning mechanics part.
Tanks have by far my favorite class fantasies in this game, but god damn, after a while it gets boring being a glorified DPS with a simpler rotation. The more exciting moment of any fight as a tank is when tank buster is about to come out and even then it's just a fleeting and superficial moment.

Unfortunately from what I understand their vision for tanks right now is to make them even more homogenized and simpler to play due to the mystical "Tankxiety" that I have no idea why people even have in this game considering the only difficult stuff you'll do is meant to do with friends.

[Lieri]

Weaving/switching tank stance and dps stance makes tanks feel clunky. In most other MMOs tanks doesnt even have a tank stance and have built in extra aggro multiplier when they deal damage making it almost impossible to get aggro off a tank that does their damage properly.

And if all else fails theres always provoke. I am not saying XIV should imitate other games but if it is not broken, dont fix it. If you are looking for more resource management, aggro is not one of them. If you are talking about adding pace or more skill cap, the game needs actual resource management system/combat rotation/priority systems exclusive to the jobs to make them not only harder to master but also engaging. I dont see TP engaging, it just adds arbitary difficulty.

Another example, the reason why they removed most of positionals MNK had is because they are old, outdated and adds arbitary difficulty to a job that is not fun to do and not even rewarding because if you didnt do your positionals as MNK you deal way less damage. That is not rewarding, that is punishing. But regardless, if you are used to it, you will want it back. It was abad design at the beginning and im glad they decided to make the new MNK the new normal. I cant see them going back for tanks as well.

[Undeadfire]

Weaving/switching tank stance and dps stance makes tanks feel clunky. In most other MMOs tanks doesnt even have a tank stance and have built in extra aggro multiplier when they deal damage making it almost impossible to get aggro off a tank that does their damage properly.

FFXI in the old days had enmity control, eventually changed Tanks should focus DPS more than sitting for enmity+, more damage awarded better control than losing enmity from soaking damage and using enmity+ abilities.

[Malthir]

FFXI in the old days had enmity control, eventually changed Tanks should focus DPS more than sitting for enmity+, more damage awarded better control than losing enmity from soaking damage and using enmity+ abilities.

Simplifying pretty much anything gives you more control however simplification comes as a cost, Tanking in FF14 has become so simplified you're not really a tank, you're DPS with more health that doesn't hit as hard, you're not doing anything remotely interesting. Your kit is reduced and simplified your mechanics are reduced and simplified. Being a tank just isn't enjoyable in this game anymore, there's no challenge to be had.

The argument someone made that the agro system was bad because good groups never cared about it and bad groups wiped because of it, yes that's a good thing. The game is moving in a terrible direction, I don't want to be chicken little telling you the sky is falling but really it is. The game is moving further and further towards no one talk run dungeon leave. Mainly because no one needs to talk, comms aren't needed plans aren't needed. The only content in which you MIGHT need to talk are extremes outside of that, join dungeon type hi, wall to wall to each boss and leave. FF14 is loosing it's way in a big way. The MSQ is pretty much the only thing holding it together.

I'm not suggesting going back to tank stances. I'm suggesting removing the whole aggro system destroyed tanking, removing the punishment from sprint and having to actually manage your resources took away consequences, this is something we've seen in other games, WOW is a prime example, instead of working on a system that could be better they just yank it out of the game, the game has become about speed running content getting to the end and not the journey to get there. The reduction of skillful play is part of what is causing this.

[Lyth]

None of the mechanics that you've described actually made taking harder.

Snap enmity was historically the main aggro related challenge. For this to have meaning, you need an add spawn that's capable of oneshotting a healer if not grabbed instantly, like a Shadow of Meracydia or Gordian Sniper. Maintaining an established enmity lead was never challenging. Nowadays, though, players are probably just as likely to just weave in an oGCD burst heal to grab aggro rather than fuss over spawn locations.

TP management wasn't interesting for tanks. It involved either bringing a BRD or pressing a button at a predetermined TP value. I'm glad that it was replaced by more interesting resource management systems. Likewise, lengthening the recast on Sprint and making it useable on melee jobs actually raised the skill cap around the ability, if anything.

I know that there's an ennui around tanking and healing at the moment, but it's not for the reasons that you've listed. If you want to make tanking challenging, then you have to work on making the positioning and survival elements more difficult.