Off-Topic Dissent, Debate, Derailment, and Fancies

[Vyrerus]

Recently, we've been having a lot of threads derailed by me, and by many other users in the forum in relation to major plot events and characters.

It's likely a problem that's not going away any time soon.

So the point of this thread is to be a catch all for such discussions and arguments that would otherwise clog threads, and send them off the rails.

It's probably not going to work, but it's the only solution that comes to mind.

If you see a post in a thread, and your thought train takes you off topic? Quote the post you're responding to in that thread, and say something like, "Hey, I've got an off topic response to this, and it'll be in the derail thread."

Maybe more effective. If you see someone going off topic with an argument, link them here, and suggest they take the argument here.

With a dedicated place for such posts, we can perhaps stonewall one another into not clogging threads with cyclical arguments.

Of course, it doesn't have to be all argument. You could post anything off topic that comes to your mind here, too. Though I generally don't think positive associations and jokes have ever derailed a discussion in a noteworthy way (That is, in a way that rouses people's anger). You know, though, just keep it all Lore-adjacent?

Obviously, I have no real authority over anyone (thank god, right?), so as with my other thread about making the forum better, it's an opt in situation. If you think it's an outright bad idea, feel free to espouse that, too.

I am serious about wanting the forum to improve. What little reputation I have be damned. I know the forum rules say not to clump topics together, but the off-topic in general is huge now, and quite usually lighthearted and enjoyable. This won't be that, but I think if general can have an off-topic section, then Lore can too.

[Rulakir]

I'm going to point out something I thought should be obvious: Just because someone lights a match doesn't mean you have to provide the tinder. The same people I see complain about topics getting derailed are equally responsible by replying to the post(s) in question and perpetuating a discussion that might've otherwise been dead in the water had they ignored it.

Given the culprit is more often than not involving Venat/Hydaelyn, keeping one of the threads criticizing her character active might be more beneficial, especially as any newcomers would be drawn to it and the people sick of the discussion can avoid it. I wasn't a fan of the 'joining Emet' thread being the survivor of them, I'd much rather see On Venat's Role in the Story or [Spoilers] Venat's motive perpetuated as both OPs are thoughtful and detailed. I would've bumped one myself, but it would've been obvious and I don't have much to add on the topic at the moment (and if I do it's usually in response to another thread).

[Beytran70]

What we really need is a stickied "Current Expansion Plot Points and Characters Discussion" thread or something for everyone to ramble on about endlessly and leave more specific topics for other threads.

[Theodric]

I think the solution is as simple as agreeing to disagree. I've been saying as much for years.

I don't have much interest in telling other people which characters they should and should not like, support or feel sympathy for. I only ask that the same courtesy is extended in turn.

[Lauront]

I think the solution is as simple as agreeing to disagree. I've been saying as much for years.

I don't have much interest in telling other people which characters they should and should not like, support or feel sympathy for. I only ask that the same courtesy is extended in turn.

Agreed. And where productive engagement is not possible, then as other users have suggested in the past, use the ignore function. Wishing that it were bannable to bring up the topic of certain characters in threads in which it is rather difficult to not tie back to their actions in some capacity or other is a rather lost cause.

I'm going to point out something I thought should be obvious: Just because someone lights a match doesn't mean you have to provide the tinder. The same people I see complain about topics getting derailed are equally responsible by replying to the post(s) in question and perpetuating a discussion that might've otherwise been dead in the water had they ignored it.

Given the culprit is more often than not involving Venat/Hydaelyn, keeping one of the threads criticizing her character active might be more beneficial, especially as any newcomers would be drawn to it and the people sick of the discussion can avoid it. I wasn't a fan of the 'joining Emet' thread being the survivor of them, I'd much rather see On Venat's Role in the Story or [Spoilers] Venat's motive perpetuated as both OPs are thoughtful and detailed. I would've bumped one myself, but it would've been obvious and I don't have much to add on the topic at the moment (and if I do it's usually in response to another thread).

Agreed.

[KariTheFox]

I do like the idea of this thread in principle, if it really can serve the purpose of stopping derailment in other threads. Though I am concerned the only discussion that'll end up happening in here is the enormous argument about Venat gaining another front, and becoming similary heated and toxic.

I am curious to see how this idea goes, though. I do not think it is a bad one at all.

[Yuella]

I asked a question about the sundering for the live letter. The question is whether they intended to be clear that the sundering was absolutely necessary to prevent annihilation (which they failed based on these topics) or they intended it to be ambiguous to encourage debate. Hopefully Yoshi-P gets to that question.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...97#post5830997

[RyuDragnier]

I saw that question when I was going through the pages Yuella, and immediately Liked it. We could use an answer from the devs on that.

[Lauront]

On that front, I put forward a few as well on areas where I thought there was ambiguity or at least some dissatisfaction: i.e. this on Venat, this on time travel, this on who will be the lead writer and this on the post-Elpis scene.