Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent. 2.0

[Kolsykol]

What's with all that ToS around here? Let's grow up and stop. I just don't understand why it's aaaalways that.

For example: So it's against the ToS if a DPS is using single target during a wall-to-wall-pull? Or is it forcing them into my playstyle because I want them to do AOE? But they are ruining my game experience? Oh I shall run with people I know if I want to speedrun? But why aren't they running with their people if they want to go slow? You understand what I mean? Yeah, let's just play together and everyone should try their best. Start reading tooltips, ask for help if you want to.

I've met a RPR yesterday that used their shroud form only one single time in dead ends. Was on my SGE and that RPR took every debuff and dmg they could. I considered letting them die to focus on DPS more. But I'm not that kind of person and it would've slowed down things even more. Don't know if they had some connection problems in general, because they disconnected once directly after the dungeon started.

If it had been me with connection issues, I would have left the dungeon to don't be a burden and get my problems fixed.

*Notices melee isn't doing any positionals*

*Brings it up out of genuine concern because they might not know*

Response: '' HOW DAREEEEEEEEEE YOU!?!?!?!+11+1+1+1+!?1+21+4151962498642 TOXIC ELITIST TELLING ME HOW 2 PLAY U DON PEY MY SUB"!3 I DIDONT FKINWN ASK HOW CAN U DUN DID THIS TO ME?#! ''

Other group members: '' YEAH HOW DAER U WHO GIEV A SHIDT JUST DON HALP ANY1 EVER IM SOOOOO MAD AT U 2 FOR SUM REASOWN ''



...

Alternatively the person in question thanks for the help and actually appreciates it but other group members have the same response lol.

[Shibi]

You mean to pull the boss as a dps when the tank is not in range of the boss?

Nah, to drop tank-stance as punishment. Tank admitted they were at the boss already when they did that.

Some days I wish that non-FFXIV mentality of "you pull you tank" would just go back to the other games.

[rewd]

if you only start healing once your tank is at 15% chances are that tank is stressed.

Oh, no. Anyway.

[Picker]

Ran dead ends in expert yesterday. Was on blm. I’d like to apologize to my party, that was one hella stoned mentor stinkin up the joint

[Loonies]

Nah, to drop tank-stance as punishment. Tank admitted they were at the boss already when they did that.

Some days I wish that non-FFXIV mentality of "you pull you tank" would just go back to the other games.

Yes the tank should have kept the tank stance on, but would it not have been better that the dps would had wait for the tank or wrote "sorry have not seen that the tank is not there for pull"?

[Padudu]

Nah, to drop tank-stance as punishment. Tank admitted they were at the boss already when they did that.

Some days I wish that non-FFXIV mentality of "you pull you tank" would just go back to the other games.

Tbh I think that is just a "everyone is a bit in the wrong" no one is clean from that story lol.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Yes the tank should have kept the tank stance on, but would it not have been better that the dps would had wait for the tank or wrote "sorry have not seen that the tank is not there for pull"?

We don't know if the DPS in their story does that out of impatience or to prompt the tank to accept the teleportation. That is up in the air; one that we'll never know, it's pointless to talk about that. But what we know for sure is the said tank enters the boss room THEN turns off the tank stance, in addition to the healer's absence of healing.

[rewd]

Yes the tank should have kept the tank stance on, but would it not have been better that the dps would had wait for the tank or wrote "sorry have not seen that the tank is not there for pull"?

Maybe, maybe not. Pulling is not a cardinal sin nor is it against the ToS. DPS have procs and buffs they might lose and wasting them makes no sense. Same principle applies to trash pulls, where the DPS loss can get significantly bigger.

[AnotherPerson]

Maybe, maybe not. Pulling is not a cardinal sin nor is it against the ToS. DPS have procs and buffs they might lose and wasting them makes no sense. Same principle applies to trash pulls, where the DPS loss can get significantly bigger.

Mob & Boss Pulls honestly depend on the team, which lie in a grey area. The perspective of pulling really depends on the player's own skill level & party coordination level. If the DNC didn't die and the healer could keep the DNC alive until the tank manage to establish aggro, there was really no issue (which happens more often than not in a well-oiled party with a good healer -- healing is overtuned in dungeons and tank aggro generation is ridiculously high with tank stance on). With the amount of AoE healing abilities a healer have, it's actually not an issue for a DPS to take a couple of hits and then let the tank re-establish aggro to spread the outgoing damage better, even in dungeon bosses. Most people just don't care enough about it because it's casual content and people aren't expected to be playing optimally beyond just their regular rotation and take into account of party coordination. Plus, damage is generally non-lethal in dungeons, so it's just more work for very marginal gain.

At the same time, it's not against ToS if tank was unprepared, didn't notice, or was ignorant of the matter in the pull. However, it is against ToS if you're intentionally griefing. What OP stated is intentionally turning off tank stance - ergo griefing the healer / DNC in the party. Whether the DPS was unaware the tank wasn't there or the party was ill-prepared to face the boss without a tank, two wrongs don't make a right.

It does sound like the party was doing well enough that the DPS can afford to take a couple of hits without everything going completely south though since they could do big pulls without a problem, so the DNC would've been fine with some light healing even if the tank shows up 15 to seconds later in the boss fight. I've done a full run without a tank on dungeon bosses before as a healer and DPS were tanking so I know it's definitely doable, but a lot rougher if the 3 remaining party members is not contributing to mitigation on a tankbuster. However, it's undisputable that the tank is definitely in the wrong here by intentionally turning off tank stance to kill someone else.

[HisShadowX]

Mob & Boss Pulls honestly depend on the team, which lie in a grey area. The perspective of pulling really depends on the player's own skill level & party coordination level. If the DNC didn't die and the healer could keep the DNC alive until the tank manage to establish aggro, there was really no issue (which happens more often than not in a well-oiled party with a good healer -- healing is overtuned in dungeons and tank aggro generation is ridiculously high with tank stance on). With the amount of AoE healing abilities a healer have, it's actually not an issue for a DPS to take a couple of hits and then let the tank re-establish aggro to spread the outgoing damage better, even in dungeon bosses. Most people just don't care enough about it because it's casual content and people aren't expected to be playing optimally beyond just their regular rotation and take into account of party coordination. Plus, damage is generally non-lethal in dungeons, so it's just more work for very marginal gain.

At the same time, it's not against ToS if tank was unprepared, didn't notice, or was ignorant of the matter in the pull. However, it is against ToS if you're intentionally griefing. What OP stated is intentionally turning off tank stance

That is a middle of the road answer seeing both sides. The problem with randoms is a lack of teamwork and coordination. If I am a Healer, my first thing in a dungeon is to let my tank know they are free to pull as much as they want and I got them. If I am a tank I ask my healer if they can handle healing for big pulls or small pulls. This way we can be in sync to work together.

I also try to work with my DPS if I notice they are pulling and not running towards me so I can get take the heat off them. However, on the other hand, if I am rolling and me the healer are far behind and a two DPS rush a boss and by the time we get to the area or right before we get the ability to teleport they are 1% health and its going to be a wipe I don't see why a tank should enter that fight knowing all that will happen is wipe. It's just a waste of time. Now, depending on the Healer and the boss battle we can salvage the party.

On the other hand, I have also witnessed healers rushing in attacking a boss and we are no where near by and the Healer is like butter so its a wipe depending on where we are all at.

I think the penalty timer is the cause of most bad parties staying together. I think getting people to accept the fact they might have to take a 30 minute time out is probably for the best we also need an option to Vote for Kick for a member of the group breaking the harmony on the group. Sadly, I do not think that would happen as Vote to Kick was abused for Prae and now everyone is forced to watch unskippable cut scenes in the MSQ for ARR.