Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent. 2.0

[Padudu]

If you don't put a macro with a sound effect indication, most players assume the tank is just dumb or ran out of mitigations before seeing the tank invuln activate, which will prompt them to heal ahead of time. This is generally the most common reason.

Most healers already experience tanks who don't mitigate / ran out of mitigation from poor rotation and will then blame the healer after dropping low on HP/dying, so healers generally don't risk it without clear communication. Other times, the Invuln buff is hidden by the various other buffs on the status bar next to the party menu or the healer isn't glued to staring at your status bar.

Or the healer is just AFK healing, who knows. You can still get away with spamming Cure II in Bardam I think.

I think a loooot of healers are still used to how old living dead operates, so they just automatically bene when they see the red hourglass pop and don't realize that it's not needed. So after Robyn popped LD the healer bene'd thinking she wasn't using any mits lol and didn't see/know what new LD does now.

[RobynDaBank]

Bardam can be rough as any tank. Everyone has to be on their game and properly geared for things to go well on big pulls. How big are you talking on the first pull? Going all the way to the walls doesn't end well most of the time.

Yeah I was going all the way to the walls on the first one - well, trying to. I have a habit of pressing my invulnerability right at the start once mobs are gathered enough so that the moment with the most enemies whacking at me can be cushioned out. I remember it going okay-ish on WAR, but it's been undoable as DRK so at some point I stopped bothering. Glad to have passed that dungeon's level bracket honestly. Leveling GNB through there is going to be the worst... IDK, I don't mean to flame on healers for not being able to manage that - heck, back when I was leveling my healers I most likely wasn't able to either. It's more annoyance at the LD issue.

If you don't put a macro with a sound effect indication, most players assume the tank is just dumb or ran out of mitigations before seeing the tank invuln activate, which will prompt them to heal ahead of time. This is generally the most common reason.

Most healers already experience tanks who don't mitigate / ran out of mitigation from poor rotation and will then blame the healer after dropping low on HP/dying, so healers generally don't risk it without clear communication. Other times, the Invuln buff is hidden by the various other buffs on the status bar next to the party menu or the healer isn't glued to staring at your status bar.

Or the healer is just AFK healing, who knows. You can still get away with spamming Cure II in Bardam I think.

I've encountered quite a few Cure spammers just going through Stormblood these past days. Think I had one in Bardam's today even.

I guess I get it... LD is kind of complicated IMO - not meaning to rag at the skill - so I suppose not everyone understands what it is. I had some people not understanding Holmgang either, and I definitely was calling out that I'll pop it. Guess I shouldn't have laxed out when I started DRK. Will try to think of a chat macro for it, I'm usually averse to those since I have a tendency to fat-finger and don't want to end up spamming it accidentally. Seems it's necessary on here though.

[Oizen]

I honestly wouldn't use Living dead until you're around 15% health, maybe even lower. The average duty finder healer is only paying the bare minimum of attention, they see low health, they heal you, no macro or anything else will change that.

As for how to handle Bardam as DRK, its rough, and I think the hardest content for DRK is anything in the 60-70 range as you approach TBN levels of damage without actually having TBN. DRK was shafted way back when during a rework where they removed DRK's tools to survive dungeon pulls and replaced them with absolutely nothing. It got worse in EndWalker when they arbitrarily nerfed Abyssal Drain even further by tying it to Carve and Spit. This is how a Heavensward class you start at lv 30 doesn't even start to feel complete until lv 70.

You really can't do this content with wall to wall pulls without a decent healer, the most you can do is make sure you're digging into every single tool you have available to you, maximize the usage of Arm's Length for its slow on trash mobs, make sure you're machine gunning damage out as hard as you can, without TBN theres no real reason you shouldn't just be blowing all your mana at once, take advantage of blood weapon and stalwart soul to get out more Floods and Queitus and try to kill things as quickly as possible.

I ususally try to keep at least 2 mitigations up at a time, Ususally something like Arms Length + Shadow Wall, wait for that to finish, Reprisial, Rampart, use Abyssal Drain as needed, make sure you launch it at an enemy in the dead center of the mob pack, but there are times when you're just going to have to slow down,

DRK is just one of many classes that feel terrible under level sync, and honestly has gotten worse over time as the game has changed.

[Raoabolic]

DRK was shafted way back when during a rework where they removed DRK's tools to survive dungeon pulls and replaced them with absolutely nothing. It got worse in EndWalker when they arbitrarily nerfed Abyssal Drain even further by tying it to Carve and Spit. This is how a Heavensward class you start at lv 30 doesn't even start to feel complete until lv 70

GEE SE, WHY DOES WAR GET TWO FORMS OF SUSTAIN IN THE FORM OF A HEAL AND HP DRAIN BY LV 56 BUT YOU ARE OKAY TAKING ALL THAT HP SUSTAIN FROM DRK AND GAVE IT TO WAR WHILE I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL 70 FOR A BUBBLE?!
YES, I'M STILL SALTY ABOUT THAT ONE SE, THANKS FOR ASKING! HOW WAS YOUR DAY?

[Oizen]

GEE SE, WHY DOES WAR GET TWO FORMS OF SUSTAIN IN THE FORM OF A HEAL AND HP DRAIN BY LV 56 BUT YOU ARE OKAY TAKING ALL THAT HP SUSTAIN FROM DRK AND GAVE IT TO WAR WHILE I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL 70 FOR A BUBBLE?!
YES, I'M STILL SALTY ABOUT THAT ONE SE, THANKS FOR ASKING! HOW WAS YOUR DAY?

I'm personally trying to figure out why we bothered to absolutely gut Abyssal Drain when they're ok with Bloodwhetting being so hilariously powerful that its very likely that average dungeon content will never be even remotely challenging again if you use it.

For all purposes, that skill might as well just be a invul on a 25 sec cd for how hard it is to use. (In Dungeons anyway, its not that insane for raid content)

[SturmChurro]

How does one do the big-boy pulls in Bardam's Mettle as DRK? Halp... I've had not a single successful big first pull.

Edit to mention, I finally understand the grating annoyance of not having your Living Dead have a chance to actually stretch its legs. I got yelled at for using no defensives when I pressed it... you're the one who Benediction-ed me to full at the hourglass buff, WHM...

Whenever I've gotten Bardam, I've found the tanking to be quite easy compared to how it was in the past. The thing about a lot of initial big pulls is that you have to hope your party is ready for it. I'd say the hardest large pull - that I've done recently - is probably the initial pull in Mt. Gulg. Other WHM healers can be pretty hit or miss, that's for sure. They typically waste quite a few of their more vital heals, especially something like benediction for DRKs or GNB. Although, many GNB panic hit their thing and that is kind of annoying as well.

[Kaedys]

Queued up as White Mage to do P2 normal for Wonderous Trails and to my surprise I had a Conjurer as a co healer. People asked him why he didn't have a job stone and he says he had forgotten it. He ended up most of the fight dieinng over and over and because of that I didn't bother raising him anymore and resorted to solo healing instead. Was a bit of a struggle and challenge but we managed to clear it without wiping the whole party and I even received 5 commedations for it. So that was fun.

I've argued for a while that job stones should be flat out mandatory for all group content at and above level 50. As in, the duty finder simply won't let you queue for anything above Aurum Veil without one equipped. It gives players plenty of buffer time after level 30 to get it, which tbh is really only relevant if you've got a metric pile of XP buffs (including Road to 70 (or is it 80 now?)). But 50 is plenty enough time for that. Just flat out ban the base classes from participating in those dungeons unless it's in unrestricted party mode. There's literally no valid reason to be running without a job stone at that level. The only reason people do it is a mistake (which the queue barring you from participating with a message that it requires a job stone equipped would fix) or trolling (which it wouldn't actually fix, but it would require them to find some other more obvious and reportable method of trolling).

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I've argued for a while that job stones should be flat out mandatory for all group content at and above level 50. As in, the duty finder simply won't let you queue for anything above Aurum Veil without one equipped. It gives players plenty of buffer time after level 30 to get it, which tbh is really only relevant if you've got a metric pile of XP buffs (including Road to 70 (or is it 80 now?)). But 50 is plenty enough time for that. Just flat out ban the base classes from participating in those dungeons unless it's in unrestricted party mode. There's literally no valid reason to be running without a job stone at that level. The only reason people do it is a mistake (which the queue barring you from participating with a message that it requires a job stone equipped would fix) or trolling (which it wouldn't actually fix, but it would require them to find some other more obvious and reportable method of trolling).

Alternatively, lock all lv30/50 or higher equipments to jobs with job crystals like Relic Weapons does (i.e. you cannot equip nor glam Nirvana Zeta if you’re a CNJ at any level).

[Kaedys]

Had a tank in Endsinger EX (are we still saying EX3?) who understandably thought tank LB3 wouldn't be enough to prevent a tower wipe after losing people to double Fatalism (which probably happens the majority of the time) because of the strong bleed right after, but I had already seen it work (even with both healers dead, thanks to having a RDM). After it happens yet again, he whips out the LB, healers pull through the bleed, and we clear. Dunno if out of pure shock or because something came up, but he left after that. True story.

I've run a lot of Ex3 as WAR, and tbh, I universally tank LB3 the quad planet if it's blue into red. It can be used to survive the tower afterwards if people die to the planets, but it can also be used on the planets to keep people from dying in the first place, and then you don't have to deal with the rezes and debuffs. I just got frustrated with 50% of pulls resulting in a wipe when they hit that point because 95% of PF groups have 2+ people, often 4+, die to a blue->red planet combo because they can't figure out how to position correctly for it. And a tank LB3 will keep you alive through a planet hit, so /shrug.

Edit: I also sorta miss the first few weeks after EW released, when I kept getting Trial rouletted into the normal version of Endsinger (as RPR), and people would lose their bloody minds when I LB3'd the add during the intermission. "OMG you just wiped us". No, no I actually didn't.

Alternatively, lock all lv30/50 or higher equipments to jobs with job crystals like Relic Weapons does (i.e. you cannot equip nor glam Nirvana Zeta if you’re a CNJ at any level).

I like this idea as well. Either one would work. But I think locking the duty finder (either solely or as well) would be more robust.

[Packetdancer]

Are big pulls common in Aurum Vale?

Not by default, no; a lot of folks who are new to the dungeon will struggle with big pulls.

That said, lately I've seen a lot of people blitzing it for the moogle tomes, and I will admit, if I'm tanking and get the Vale right now, if I see that everyone in the party has the job they're on at 90, I will absolutely offer to go ham with the pulls, because—as you point out—it's certainly possible. As I imagine you know, only the first room is that tricky, and for that one you can just hug the left wall, grab everything you have to run through, pull them into the boss room, and kill them there before pulling the boss. Scoot to the side once you're in the boss room (breaking line of sight) and if the toad has come along for the ride will often hit the end of its tether and wander back off, leaving you a relatively small number of things to kill.

Even still, I've seen experienced players mess up. Usually it's just because there's so many overlapping AoEs, and if the healer gets careless and gets hit by a morbol (and doesn't have Echo Drops, like us Deep Dungeon aficionados do)... well, they're silenced, and it may make for a Bad Day for others.

So if I see anyone who's not level-synced or who has a sprout icon, I will definitely play it slightly more cautious by default.

Although, many GNB panic hit their thing and that is kind of annoying as well.

See, if I'm in Mt. Gulg (as that's the pull you mentioned) as GNB and see I've got a WHM, I'll just outright tell the WHM "I'm gonna go ham on the pull and then hit Bolide once everything's gathered, just as an FYI." Usually this gets a thumbs-up, I do exactly what I said I would, the WHM Bene's me, and we all enjoy the invuln for a bit as we just burn everything down.