1 ultimate instead of 2 ?

[Nethereal]

Worth noting that is also for TEA, which is probably the least cleared ultimate these days.

Understandably so, it's a straight trauma without a good group.

[EverQuest]

Not everyone logs though so data is inaccurate.

[Nethereal]

Not everyone logs though so data is inaccurate.

You only need 1 person out of a group of 8 to get logs, the percentage of 8/8 groups doing ultimate not logging it at all must be so small it can't even be counted as an exception.
It's an abnormality.

[Krotoan]

Because most of the player base doesn't seem to even have patience for a 12 minute dungeon run. I remember how much people lost their minds for DR's un-essenced runs. Let alone imagine wiping after 25 minutes of constant engagement and now you gotta do it.. again.

[Tulzscha]

Ultimates are just a mashup of previous fights with some added stuff, how about a mashup of Ultimates? The ultimate Ultimate o.o

[icrot]

Ultimates are just a mashup of previous fights with some added stuff, how about a mashup of Ultimates? The ultimate Ultimate o.o

Ultimama.

Why not make them 2 hours long instead of just 30 minutes? And if you wipe, your character gets deleted. That'd be a real challenge.

Jokes aside, I haven't done any kind of high-end content in this game, but duration ≠ complexity. Lots of games suffer from this, giving the boss an immense health pool to artificially increase the fight duration and one-shooting auto-attacks is not difficulty, is just bad fight design.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Increasing a fight's length for no reason isn't increasing its challenge, it's just turning it into an endurance match for the players. And SE's had problems with that in the past. Remember the debacle with XI's Pandemonium Warden and Absolute Virtue?

[CaedemSanguis]

Increasing a fight's length for no reason isn't increasing its challenge, it's just turning it into an endurance match for the players. And SE's had problems with that in the past. Remember the debacle with XI's Pandemonium Warden and Absolute Virtue?

of course it is

doing ucob+tea is way harder than doing tea, and then ucob (like they where a checkpoint)

maybe 30mn is a bit much, yet I think that 24mn-27mn is perfect lenght

[kaynide]

Not interested in ultimates personally, but I think 30 min is excessive for a single fight. Even 15 I feel is asking for a bit much considering how complex the ultimates appear to be (only watched on YouTube).

[SaberMaxwell]

An endurance challenge would be interesting, but even Ultimate is already pushing up on being an endurance challenge already. On release ucob was closer to 18 minutes than 15, and iirc uwu was ~16 minutes or so.

The issue with "just make it longer lmao" is even in Ultimate you see a drop-off of mechanical complexity as the fight goes on. Compare Golden Bahamut (realistically just tankbuster raid buster dodge 1 mech repeat) to Nael or even Twin. Or Perfect Alex to Living Liquid or Brute Cruise. It wouldn't be as simple as "just glue two ultimates together" because mechanics would by nature of SE's establishes flow of an Ultimate, only make it easier from there. That or they really do follow up P.Alex with Twin (ok, Twin might work but Nael?) and subject already exhausted players to a mechanically complex situation and I think you'd get more frustration.

I think an endurance run going beyond 15m could be an interesting concept. Maybe make it wave based survival in an endless (so, 90 minute survival mode), with randomized mobs including some bosses included? It's a concept at least.