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  1. #11
    Player
    ArcaviusGreyashe's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
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    905
    Character
    Sikah'to Tahqa
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandor View Post
    The concepts existed before and they're the new life Zodiark seeded.
    The fact there are tales about Azim creating Raens and Nhaama creating Xaela makes me think Azem (us, Venat or another one) created some familiars that became a species, and a Nhaam-something created Raen. Same for Azeyma being the guardian deity of seekers. MAYBE we'll have an hint in the next raid 24 about some ascian named Halona that created pointy ears familiars, who knows ?

    If you adhere to the "allagans are just a lawful evil version of ancients", it's the same that happend with ixalions : they created a race (slave-race, in the case of ixalions) that became a species.

    Every "human" race exist in all worlds, so they existed before the sundering. It's said allagans captured miqo'tes, so they did not create them, and G'raha only got allagan blood to prevent the Allagan technology to disappear entirely. Probably an enslaved race, again.

    Plus, Venat could totally have created lalafells, since everything she creates is either fluffy, small, round, or a combination of those.
    (1)

  2. #12
    Player
    Absimiliard's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
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    2,031
    Character
    Cassius Rex
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    I mean, true, but Venat doesn't strike me as the type to knowingly create something as evil and messed up as potatofells.
    (4)

  3. #13
    Player
    ArcaviusGreyashe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
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    905
    Character
    Sikah'to Tahqa
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    Ah, I'm defeated once more by those arguments. You're right, Absimilliard.

    ..that said there doesn’t seem to be any 3rd eye Garlean types on the first..so maybe they were created by the Allagan.
    I can totally see the allagans experimenting with some people that rebelled, implanting them a third eye to mark them and preventing them from using aether.
    (5)

  4. #14
    Player
    Selvokaz's Avatar
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    Aug 2015
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    310
    Character
    Reiya Rahamos
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe View Post
    The fact there are tales about Azim creating Raens and Nhaama creating Xaela makes me think Azem (us, Venat or another one) created some familiars that became a species, and a Nhaam-something created Raen. Same for Azeyma being the guardian deity of seekers. MAYBE we'll have an hint in the next raid 24 about some ascian named Halona that created pointy ears familiars, who knows ?

    If you adhere to the "allagans are just a lawful evil version of ancients", it's the same that happend with ixalions : they created a race (slave-race, in the case of ixalions) that became a species.

    Every "human" race exist in all worlds, so they existed before the sundering. It's said allagans captured miqo'tes, so they did not create them, and G'raha only got allagan blood to prevent the Allagan technology to disappear entirely. Probably an enslaved race, again.

    Plus, Venat could totally have created lalafells, since everything she creates is either fluffy, small, round, or a combination of those.
    This makes me think, in the case of Au'Ra, if you travelled back in time as an Au'Ra and word got around that all those observers you helped as the then-current Azem's familiar that he/she sent to Elpis was very knowledgable, wise, strong (for a familiar), and thus would like to have a similar one, it might make Azem decide to in fact create said race as a concept, hence you kind of give birth to yourself(race) type of situation lol. Wait it could be true of any race now that I think about it.
    (0)
    Last edited by Selvokaz; 02-02-2022 at 01:56 AM.

  5. #15
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
    Location
    Amaurot
    Posts
    4,449
    Character
    Tristain Archambeau
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurina View Post
    The Doylist answer is that the writers, like a lot of stuff associated with the Sundering, probably just didn't want to create a definitive answer. Any clarification about the specifics of what "mankind" is in the modern day and how it diversified from basically just humans would lead to some uncomfortable questions about the ethics of what took place, and put some weird ideas in player's heads about the racial politics of the setting without doing anything to compliment the themes they had in mind.

    For a Watsonian answer, you could reasonably guess that the Hyur and maybe the Elezen are directly descended from Sundered Ancients, while the other races are descended from creations or are genetic spinoffs. Aside from being visually the most similar, in the Elpis MSQ, an Ancient comments on the attributes of your race compared to their own, and the only remark Hyur and Elezen get is that their aether is really thin, while others are singled out for their bestial and unusual features. And the Au Ra backstory makes it almost explicit that they, at least, were created by the rival sides of the Zodiark vs Hydaelyn conflict.

    The Hyur are also omnipresent across the entire planet in a way the other races are not, including in the New World, which seems to indicate them previously having been the dominant species of the world. Though, that's of course a post-hoc justification. The real reason is that they're fantasy humans, and making fantasy humans the generic race that's everywhere is just a thing writers do.

    The issue with this explanation is: Why would the races diverge in exactly the same way in both the Source and the First, when everything else about their timelines went differently? Any explanation has to be something which can be attributed to the moment of the Sundering, not afterwards.
    Indeed. We can assume similarly of the Void from what we know of it. It's one of my slight disappointments with how they premised the differences of the First and Source, as these are worlds with differing aetheric densities (something the lore is not shy about emphasising as making a difference in outcomes, e.g. here, but also stated in EE vol1) and passage of time... but I suppose they really did just want to do a 1:1 to Eorzea on some level, but more high fantasy.

    Even without the usual environmental pressures at play, mating choices alone should've resulted in some manner of speciation that is distinctive across each world, as this influences which traits propagate... but instead we have exactly the same division of races, right down to the clans. Perhaps it just doesn't operate on the same genetic principles as do RL life forms (i.e. for hybrids, traits defining the race cluster back together within a very small number of generations, perhaps even a single, and those influencing individual traits are not so much heritable as randomised within a pool available to a race and clan, or at least not as strongly heritable as with RL humans; combined, something like this would prevent prominent speciation based on mating choices persisting), which is not exactly inconsistent with many life forms being created through magic. Barring the possibility of creations/similar entities, even other stars appear to be mono-racial as well, which makes you wonder about how life originated on each star and what influenced its development. Both the ancients and dragons, for example, possess some very great powers innately.

    With that said, for the time being we just have to roll with the fact that there's precious little difference between the assortment of races/species between each Reflection, barring anything that appeared post-Sundering, and assume they're just physical forms potentially created by the ancients, which the star saw fit to dump ancient souls into.
    (2)
    Last edited by Lauront; 02-02-2022 at 10:06 AM.
    When the game's story becomes self-aware:


  6. #16
    Player
    ArcaviusGreyashe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
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    905
    Character
    Sikah'to Tahqa
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvokaz View Post
    This makes me think, in the case of Au'Ra, if you travelled back in time as an Au'Ra and word got around that all those observers you helped as the then-current Azem's familiar that he/she sent to Elpis was very knowledgable, wise, strong (for a familiar), and thus would like to have a similar one, it might make Azem decide to in fact create said race as a concept, hence you kind of give birth to yourself(race) type of situation lol. Wait it could be true of any race now that I think about it.
    Considering you're the strongest and most blessed of Hydaelyn's champions because you're the one she met and adored in Elpis, and that you were to Elpis in the first place because you were the strongest and most blessed of Hydaelyn's champions, we're already in a "give birth to yourself" mind loop xD
    (3)

  7. #17
    Player
    LineageRazor's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
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    Character
    Lineage Razor
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 90
    One detail that I found interesting during the Elpis chapter was the fact that while Creations apparently don't have souls, the offspring of Creations do. This is how the Ancients are able to introduce new species into the world; once the initial Creations breed and reproduce, their offspring are just like other plants and animals in the world.

    I suspect that most of the races we know are Creations of the Ancients (or possibly of Zodiark), and as the Sundered Ancients died and their souls recycled, those souls were born into the bodies of the races we know.

    It does make me wonder why those original Sundered Ancients didn't continue to reproduce? Perhaps they did - Ancients look mostly like Hyur, except for their weird eyes, so perhaps a Sundered Ancient IS a Hyur. (Varis was right???) Alternatively, perhaps Sundered Ancients are no longer fertile; maybe they need their massive Aether reserves in order to reproduce. So, after a childless generation, they died off and only their Creations remained...
    (2)

  8. #18
    Player
    Rulakir's Avatar
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    Nov 2021
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    977
    Character
    Sajah Lane
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 88
    Varis may be a biased source given he got his information from Emet and possibly Elidibus, both of whom refer to mankind after the sundering as "malformed creatures", but it's still all I've found in game about it thus far.

    (4)

  9. #19
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
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    Feb 2017
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    7,093
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    I also took the unsundered's repeated claims of us being "malformed" as a suggestion that the races of man were born directly from the sundered ancients.

    It does raise the question of why the other lifeforms in the world seem unchanged post-sundering, though.
    (1)

  10. #20
    Player
    Shuuli's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
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    304
    Character
    Shuuli Vondael
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    The creatures that were on Elpis were on "testing" phase. That does not mean that there were no other creatures that were already released. This would assume the Ancients created majority of the creatures that are beasts or part of a beast tribe.

    How our playable races deviated is a good question and is never explained. Might be a sundering side effect.
    (6)

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