Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Shiroe]

The main difference from 80 smn to 90 is, you dont need a parser to figure out what the optimal way / rota to run an endgame.l fight., while now at lv 90, its more clear (no parser really needed),
We can see what the optimal rota is for each endraid fight, just with some experience / a few runs, without a parser, .. which high-end players obviously needed for the "not fluid Smn rota" at lv 80
...
On low end difficult content, Smn is a sleeping pill.., but on high-end, it fun ..also discovering which rota is better for the moment or for what is head..
.. its not braindead anymore

[zcrash970]

The main difference from 80 smn to 90 is, you dont need a parser to figure out what the optimal way / rota to run an endgame.l fight., while now at lv 90, its more clear (no parser really needed),
We can see what the optimal rota is for each endraid fight, just with some experience / a few runs, without a parser, .. which high-end players obviously needed for the "not fluid Smn rota" at lv 80
...
On low end difficult content, Smn is a sleeping pill.., but on high-end, it fun ..also discovering which rota is better for the moment or for what is head..
.. its not braindead anymore

Lol it's even more brain dead!
what are you talking about?

It boils down to use titan for burst/moving, Garuda next and only ifrit when you can cast/ safe to be in melee range. That isn't thinking. It's like saying a melee combo requires thought or a blm using paradox/fire1 to extend astral fire

EDIT: actually scratch that about blm. There's some thought that goes into ending astral fire early is a good idea.

The only miniscule of thought a smn needs to put in these days is "oh, I better use bahamut/phoenix before this break so I don't lose a lot of dps" like during p2s charge mechanic

[Grimoire-M]

Not sure how it wouldn't when there's no real strategy in how to use them now. The only strategy is how to get through Ifrit's attacks faster....

There’s no strategy in how the bardsong buffs themselves work so it wouldn’t change your priorities. Bard does have strategic concerns with its personal DPS effects from their songs but that’s purely from repertoire. The way those buffs are tuned on Bard would be how they’re given to us on Summoner and it would be equally if not more lacklustre as a result.

[CKNovel]

The main difference from 80 smn to 90 is, you dont need a parser to figure out what the optimal way / rota to run an endgame.l fight., while now at lv 90, its more clear (no parser really needed),
We can see what the optimal rota is for each endraid fight, just with some experience / a few runs, without a parser, .. which high-end players obviously needed for the "not fluid Smn rota" at lv 80

No job really need parsers to understand a rotation.
Every job has a 1 min burst window and a 2min burst window.
Most jobs start the opener burst after the 4th-5th GCD.

Priority to high potency skills.
Try to not lose any uses of high potency cooldows, try to fit them in every 1min&2min.
Most jobs works like this, maybe not BLM.

Congrats you've understood most jobs in the game.

[Shiroe]

Smn endgame rota:
which pet in which oder + micro management
- Titan for burst or save for heavy movment, like blm with tripplecast, save for brust or for heavier movement;
- Garuda, weak but ok for movment (not as gud as titan, Garuda cast are fast & over sooner), and might get caught off guard, if we get a mechanic before hard casting aoe, do we start with the cast, if we have time, or use the instant casts 1st?
- Ifrit , once we start the melee combo we have to finish it, if we or boss gets moved out of ranges during the melee combo theres a problem, 2nd melee has a short reach, it can mess up (cant hard cast inbetween, than use the 2nd melee combo).. . or do 1st have time to get the hard casts out, since it seems to be a moment of non-movement)

.and there is deciding when to hard cast ruin 3 inbetween those, since we could end up finishing our 3 pets before Bamamut is ready yet.., so we just hard cast ruin 3s at the end, but movement could come up any sec, after finishing our 3 pets but baha ist up for another 4-8 sec, so hard cast R3 inbetween, on which pet

.determining on the battle phase, which order to use the pets, so instant movement is constantly ready, besides the mentioned micromanagement

.yes, the bahamut & phömix rotas are very straightforward, but need to hold off the "2 big hitters", with that window, cause if others are behind with their party buffs, we might miss it on the only window of opportunity (ok, most deal with that too)

.Smn is as fun and more intuitive than the lv 80 smn (high endgame) and its more clear what can be optimal (if we can keep uptime juggling the 3 pets & their rotas and buff windows, we will actually get an optimal run)., while 70 & 80 we needed to see, when to hold on Bahamut, when to weave in more, when to clip dots or just not use tridisaste cause dots might nit tick enough, even when holding full uptime

Lv 70 & 80, it was easier to achieve full uptime, but the optimal run wasnt clear even with full uptime (whwhich eventually ment, trying things out, but not knowing if its a dps gain or not
..like even like starting with Garuda in uwu, than switching to ifrit later, or holding off Bahamut till adds came, but than not being up for movement or next multiple hit (Ifrit between to nails) so possibility not using Bahamut, but saving it

...with out a parser to actually see that some of those counter-intuitive methods are a dps gain., but at 90, there are less if not practical no need to experiment, since the rota is is less flexible for, when using/ not using Baha & Phönix.., no need to see whats better for dots, clipping etc, but achieving full uptime feel harder at 90 on lv 90 content (with more movement & with in rota unavoidable "need to hard cast now" moments)

.Smn 90 in endgame, is more given, when we can burts, ... and just keeping full uptime in a fight, we start to see its optimal run, without needing a parser or povs...

[Shiroe]

.. aka Smn now is build, so its still engaging & fun in lv 90 high endgame, with the 3 pets & each with their individual rotas, all needing to be interchange to keep up full uptime, using the pets and skill for 100% uptime while using burst windows at its best
(imo PS2 & especially PS3 onwards are engaging enough, with changing the smn rota to fit perfectly in each specific lv 90 high endgame battle for full uptime, .
which isnt as straight forward in easy / normal fights or many lower level fight too, where it really boderlines a sleeping pill at times)
....
Im just speaking as an average raider (who has way less time the raid than he'd like.., and is caught up in Elden Ring & Elex 2 atm)

[Equitable_Remedy]

I recently started leveling SMN, and I'm now in the low 50s.

I'm enjoying it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sorry, I guess.

[tearagion]

.. aka Smn now is build, so its still engaging & fun in lv 90 high endgame, with the 3 pets & each with their individual rotas, all needing to be interchange to keep up full uptime, using the pets and skill for 100% uptime while using burst windows at its best
(imo PS2 & especially PS3 onwards are engaging enough, with changing the smn rota to fit perfectly in each specific lv 90 high endgame battle for full uptime, .
which isnt as straight forward in easy / normal fights or many lower level fight too, where it really boderlines a sleeping pill at times)
....
Im just speaking as an average raider (who has way less time the raid than he'd like.., and is caught up in Elden Ring & Elex 2 atm)

Speaking also as an average raider it is extremely boring. You know where to use the gem summons every time after one pull and there are virtually no skill checks otherwise, just meld sps to the fight and press everything off CD except odd minute Festers, not even needing to stop moving to cast more than 3-4 times a minute.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

I recently started leveling SMN, and I'm now in the low 50s.

I'm enjoying it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sorry, I guess.

No reason to be sorry if you enjoying the rework. SMN is pretty fun in duns and to level. Most the complaints you see on here and in other places are mostly from us who enjoy savage and ultimate raiding. That is where the smn's rework starts failing the player and starts becoming unfun. It's not really built to do high end contect in fights with downtime and decision making because smn rotation is very strict and you really cant move things around to fit things in windows. You have to use demis on every min or you lose damage. You don't have the freedom to use your buff inside your demis since the carby is required to be out. Also smn falls short when compare to rdm since it does about the same amount of damage but has an worst utility kit than rdm. Anyway, no one going to shame someone who enjoy the rework. I for one have said rework is a good start point but they need to finish it since at the release of EW the rework feels very unfinished and smn at lvl 90 doesn't feel like a lvl 90 job.

[Rolder50]

Speaking also as an average raider it is extremely boring. You know where to use the gem summons every time after one pull and there are virtually no skill checks otherwise, just meld sps to the fight and press everything off CD except odd minute Festers, not even needing to stop moving to cast more than 3-4 times a minute.

Got a strange feeling you're replying to someone who finds "press everything off CD" to be engaging and challenging.