Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Corbeau]

I don't find the new SMN disappointing. I'd like one more layer of mechanics, either oGCDs or a second set of unique primals post-Phoenix, but that's mostly it.

[IchiExorz]

The SMN rework is a success in the thematic department but in the gameplay & rotation department it's very disappointing.
It literally feels unifnished where it needs a layer of gameplay added to it to make it interesting to play.

[XmissionsX]

Spending some more time with it the things which stand out to me the most are the low skill ceiling and low dps, don’t get me wrong I almost hate every change they made but these two are increasing if u spend more play time with the class.

I have no feeling I can improve anymore I am at perfect rotation with the highest pentamelded gear available doing pots and food even in dungeons bosses but am getting beaten dps wise by a reaper doing a ok job in lower gear. It’s frustrating as my rotation is already perfect something I almost never managed to do with the old smn, this with just pressing the same btn over and over with very little variation’s is getting very boring fast.

[Jirah]

Case in a point, conveniently ignored in this entire discussion, BLM is right there as the least popular one. It's also one of the best designed jobs in the game, because the devs actually play it instead of arbitrarily deciding it needs to be reworked because it's not popular enough. It's when they buy hard into the popularity argument you tend to get hot messes, like the entire damn healer role.

I cannot stand this argument and always look at BLM as a powerfully counter argument, for as long as RDM existed I don’t think it has ever surpassed it in terms of popularity. Which means, by their logic, it needs a rework.

How about discuss the tangible kit first, meta BS next, then far far far down the priority list look at popularity. The easiest jobs that require less from the player will inevitably always be played more than ones that need a point of mastery

[Zagg]

Frankly, I love the current theme and idea behind the SMN rework, and I think the flow is fantastic and offers great opportunities to add rotational abilities and more opportunities for skill expression, which it is currently lacking at the moment. I just hope they commit to this iteration and use it as a building block for the job, as it lends itself wonderfully to that with far less potential jank as more gets added to it.

[darcstar62]

After playing through the MSQ, both EX trials, and a couple of savage floors on Summoner, I've come to the conclusion that while SMN feels good aesthetically and is fun to play in dungeons, I don't like the way it feels in high-end content. Again, this is just a personal opinion and not a fact. My main concerns are around the inflexible rotation, which leads to lockouts of abilities during certain phases, and the lack of opportunities to optimize. I don't want a total rework, but I do plan to shelve SMN for the remainder of the expansion wrt high-end content and just hope (but not expect) some changes to make it better.

[Rolder50]

Frankly, I love the current theme and idea behind the SMN rework, and I think the flow is fantastic and offers great opportunities to add rotational abilities and more opportunities for skill expression, which it is currently lacking at the moment. I just hope they commit to this iteration and use it as a building block for the job, as it lends itself wonderfully to that with far less potential jank as more gets added to it.

In terms of jank, the worst part of old summoner is still there, with Searing Light being tied to Carbuncle. Means you can still ghost it pretty easily. Not only that, it's also easy to drift the cooldown when you want to use it with bahamut.

[Nizzi]

I know people hate RNG, especially for optimization, but if they're sticking to the "on rails rotation" of "summon Bahamut, burn your 3 primals, summon Phoenix, burn your 3 primals" I'd like for them to introduce more summons that you randomly get. Instead of getting Ifrit, Garuda and Titan every time, you might get Ifrit, Shiva and Alex one time and then maybe Leviathan, Ramuh, Garuda, etc and they could have longer cast times, shorter, etc. I know it could be punishing to get 3 summons that are longer cast times in a movement heavy part but outside of that I think it'd be a way to make Summoner feel less like a job that plays the same everytime. I'd much rather have something like that then getting 3 new summons that just come during the Phoenix phase and are the same everytime, which is my biggest issue with the job atm.

[Aikaal]

In terms of jank, the worst part of old summoner is still there, with Searing Light being tied to Carbuncle. Means you can still ghost it pretty easily. Not only that, it's also easy to drift the cooldown when you want to use it with bahamut.

I'd also say that its pretty janky that Summon G/I/T requires Summon B/P. That's just me however. I personally do not like the restrictiveness that comes that you absolutely have to open with Bahamut. Wish you could just have the option of Baha or Phoe and they both share the same recast time. Spice it up and gives a buff to the other one so you can work with variations. I think they completely missed the mark when the SMN community didn't want Devotion to be a pet action and restricted to Carbuncle because they added more. I know it was mention also but I'll also say it. Why is Carbuncle position not matter when you do any Summon? What's the point of the action Place. Really, what's the point? Because I put Carbuncle in the middle at the beginning to make sure Searing Light hits everyone but Carbuncle's position constantly moves. It's pretty silly if you ask me.

After playing through the MSQ, both EX trials, and a couple of savage floors on Summoner, I've come to the conclusion that while SMN feels good aesthetically and is fun to play in dungeons, I don't like the way it feels in high-end content. Again, this is just a personal opinion and not a fact. My main concerns are around the inflexible rotation, which leads to lockouts of abilities during certain phases, and the lack of opportunities to optimize. I don't want a total rework, but I do plan to shelve SMN for the remainder of the expansion wrt high-end content and just hope (but not expect) some changes to make it better.

Not wanting to compare but after clearing the first 3 floors on SMN, I'm going RDM on the 4th fight. You know what SMN can't do that RDM can? When you prog blind and have 3 deaths and you still go full party on the next mechanics because you can cast 3 raises in 10 seconds. It's also great that I don't have to complain every 10 minutes about SMN in raid because RDM is just so much better in term of performances and gameplay.

[dinnertime]

Yeah I agree they should make you choose between Bahamut and Phoenix only to give more control to Phoenix's support capabilities. I really see no reason for the current, rigid cycle of Bahamut to Phoenix anymore unless they just want them to have a fair chance being used at the same amount.

That'll also give us more opportunities to get a 3rd Demi summon in the future, meaning more choices. SMN right now and during Shadowbringers is just too rigid.