Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[zcrash970]

Had a quick look at amount of parses on ff logs and in normal raids summoner is 2nd in amount of parses only behind reaper. On savage it is on 4th place in amount of parses. Sounds like it's really popular after rework.

And this is why context is important. It's behind red mage in the amount of parses. Rdm does everything better and a more flushed out job atm. It's ahead of black mage because BLM is a hard job to master for a lot of people, not party finder friendly, and offer no recover utility with raise.

So of course smn is high in the amount of records on fflogs. Its only real competition in its role is rdm, most people are going to bring BLM on speed clears and magic DPS is a very popular role.This isn't even acknowledging the fact that it's basically a new job and it's easy to play

[Gruntler]

And this is why context is important. It's behind red mage in the amount of parses.

This statement, while true, is misleading. You need to look at more than two data points to come to a conclusion.

https://i.imgur.com/zsfdXUb.png

Looking at reality, everyone except Reaper is behind RDM in total parses. That doesn't imply Summoner is rarely played, seeing as it's the fourth most played job in Savage, according to clears. Summoner is played the average amount of the casters, both by median AND by mean. Summoner is played more than every melee EXCEPT Reaper!

It's not hard to see that cries that Summoner is an underplayed job is heckin huffing the Nopium.

Rdm does everything better and a more flushed out job atm. It's ahead of black mage because BLM is a hard job to master for a lot of people, not party finder friendly, and offer no recover utility with raise.

RDM's always been a very popular job. It was popular in Stormblood, it was popular towards the end of Shadowbringers, and it's popular now. And while I'm not going to blow smoke up your ass and say that RDM isn't a good pick in pugs (far from it, it's the pugchamp), the truth is, RDM players don't care if it's op. So long as it isn't shit, they'll play it, and EW RDM plays really well. Of COURSE the second most popular job since SB is going to stay second most popular!

So of course smn is high in the amount of records on fflogs.

I mean, it is high, because it's popular. A lot of people like summoning chunky monsters. Sometimes the reason behind a job being used really is just 'It makes people have the goody goody chemicals.' It doesn't mean the job is good or bad--it just means that people like it.

Its only real competition in its role is rdm, most people are going to bring BLM on speed clears and magic DPS is a very popular role.This isn't even acknowledging the fact that it's basically a new job and it's easy to play

Magic DPS hasn't always been very popular, there've been times where it hasn't. It's gone through rough patches.

I won't argue that SMN doesn't need some tweaks but when we have jobs that are played less than half as often than SMN, it's hard to really paint a picture of SMN doom.

[aveyond-dreams]

The most entertaining aspect of all this is how the job is still widely beloved in game, and besides wanting to see reasonable and meaningful improvements, people are far better off than they've ever been. I am physically unable to escape other Summoners in game. Quite literally they are everywhere. If the data mentioned above is correct, it sounds like savage players have taken to Summoner after all the complaining of how the job was allegedly too boring in savage? When that's the busiest content in-game? That sure was...a moment.

All the bashing in the world isn't going to make them revert things back or betray current Summoner's fanbase by throwing them curveballs like adding Bio/Miasma/Bane back. Dots and similar "busywork" buffs/debuffs can go the way of bowmage too, for that matter. It's needless button bloat and that spaced is better off being used for anything else.

[Rolder50]

All the bashing in the world isn't going to make them revert things back or betray current Summoner's fanbase by throwing them curveballs like adding Bio/Miasma/Bane back. Dots and similar "busywork" buffs/debuffs can go the way of bowmage too, for that matter. It's needless button bloat and that spaced is better off being used for anything else.

You mean like when they betrayed the fanbase in Shadowbringers when they totally changed the job? Please, they'll do it without a second thought.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

As said before popularity isn't a good way to judge a job performance and how much it is being enjoyed. A good example is whm, it's not in the greatest spot right now but it is still popular. New smn is new and shiny so of course, it going to be very popular especially in normal/casual content. Nothing wrong with that of course I think the skill floor is fine for smn since it does allow newer players and more casual players to enjoy it but what is the problem is its skill ceiling and overall optimization choices. That is what I want to see their work on right now, not just in two years either. There are things the dev team can do now to make smn better in a lot of areas. One thing I saw from a post in this thread by @Dahlinea I really like, instead of having demis on a timer you work for them by summoning T/G/I to get the gems and then spend those gems to summon a demi. I think this is something devs could do in a patch or patches, of course, it would req. one new button to be added, and that is a way to get gems for your opener like rdm's manafiction or blm's amplifier. Either way, my point is I want them to continue to work on smn even during the course of EW, and the only way they do that is for posts like this and others to happen so they know ppl are unhappy with new smn even though it has good things about it.

[aveyond-dreams]

Given the state of the alleged "fanbase" old SMN being split between 2 groups-people who wanted to be FF Summoners and coped with the kit they were forced to put up with, and the...other group who I'm not going to describe in detail.

The rework happens, and player numbers surge. I would hope by now that the poison mages of eld have since moved on to other jobs, but they may still be processing the state of affairs. With how often they told others to "adapt" to SMN's horrific state for so many years, it is surprising now they fail to do just that. Anyway, there are things to improve involving the earlier experience, adding the missing primals, etc but ultimately it's nothing that demands another rework or the reintroduction of mechanics everyone already passed on.

But by all means, continue to push for the return of micromanagement: the job or the addition of meaningless busywork. I'll be the first to drop Summoner if they abandon their present course and return to the old ways, and proceed to play Red/Black Mage like I've been doing since forever. Though anyone who reads the mood in-game and that of most players can see why such a thing is unlikely to happen. 80/20 rule-and sadly the complexity lovers fall in the minority here.

[IruruCece]

But by all means, continue to push for the return of micromanagement: the job or the addition of meaningless busywork.

We will, in hopes that you actually follow through with your promise.

[dinnertime]

Correct me if I'm wrong but SMN even back then wasn't even an unpopular job. It had a lot of appeal because it did high DPS, sometimes powercreeping BLM and people wanted to take advantage of that. That and it had more appeal than BLM for being more mobile.

It was not unpopular in the slightest.

[IruruCece]

Correct me if I'm wrong but SMN even back then wasn't even an unpopular job. It had a lot of appeal because it did high DPS, sometimes powercreeping BLM and people wanted to take advantage of that. That and it had more appeal than BLM for being more mobile.

It was not unpopular in the slightest.

Anyone who is claiming that SMN was somehow underplayed or the least popular DPS during ShB or Stormblood is straight up lying.

[HyperSMB]

Correct me if I'm wrong but SMN even back then wasn't even an unpopular job. It had a lot of appeal because it did high DPS, sometimes powercreeping BLM and people wanted to take advantage of that. That and it had more appeal than BLM for being more mobile.

It was not unpopular in the slightest.

Last I remember seeing, it was one of the most unpopular regardless of High DPS. I cannot speak to raid numbers, I guess we could look at old parses, but I seem to recall something from LuckyBronco showing job distribution.