Dark Knights are an absolute joke and I'm tired of pretending they're not

[YukikoKurosawa]

I thought Xeno was just memeing.

Then I leveled up DRK. And holy hell, it is genuinely trash. Every. Single. Dungeon. I die. I cannot pull more than 1 group without the healer struggling or completely failing unless they're a WHM.

Use my "invuln", and I die unless it's a WHM with their insta-full heal ability because I die unless I am healed to full before the timer ends.

I have no idea if the defense values are just lower than other tanks, but I have barely any survivability. From what I've gathered SE now wants DRK's to be the magic resistance tank.....what does that even mean in this game? How am I supposed to tell what is an isn't a spell? When it's only my own abilities I can tell are physical or magicaly because they have etiher a "weaponskill" or "spell" on their icon. But that doesn't help me with enemies. And in a game where it's extremely freaking vague as to what is an isn't a spell just based on visual effects alone, it's even worsened by some abilities that look like they're magic-based being an "ability" or "weaponskill". Such as PLD's Circle of Scorn, where you bonk your sword into the ground and cause several beams of light to burst from the ground. That's an ability, not a spell, an ABILITY. Why? I have no idea, but it establishes that I have no way of telling what is and isn't a spell in this game because what should logically be magic based on how it looks could not be and since I have no way of telling the type of ability an enemy uses because it doesn't show "spell" or "weaponskill" alongside their attack it could be either or for all I know thereby I have no idea when I should even use my magic invulns.

Worse still is most enemies obviously use physical attacks only, a lot of enemies just auto-attack and occassionally use an ability that is vaguely either a physical or magical attack. This game fundamentally fails to differentiate between what is physical or magic because it was never built for it.

It's crap. I have crap survivability. I have a suicide button masquarading as an invuln. Half of my damage mitigations are for "magic" which is barely relevant and I can't even tell if what is hitting me is physical or magic 99% of the time. I get that you want to prevent homogenization, but making classes unique does not mean making some classes grossly OP like WAR or utterly garbage like DRK, it means making them feel different while still being equally viable for their role. This is not difficult. I don't feel like DRK is too similar to PLD, or GNB, or WAR, they all feel very distinct from a visual, sound, and gameplay aspect. The difference is that the other tanks are actually not crap, and DRK is complete and utter crap. Making one class completely and utterly suck is not making it different.

Make my invuln not suck. Make me have good survivability. Drop this absolutely useless "magic invuln" idea and just give me flat damage mitigations. This job is borderline unplayable in dungeon content right now.

[deadman1204]

Its hard being the highest dps tank I'm sure.

If no healer can keep you up on pulls, maybe the problem isn't the class. Its your gear and or skill with the class.

[TouchandFeel]

I've seen a number of people say similar things with their experience leveling DRK in dungeons. My experience leveling DRK from 80 to 90 using exclusively dungeons was vastly different than what you and others have described and so I am genuinely curious as what people are doing and how they are using their abilities during wall to wall pulls that is resulting in them having so much difficulty.

Could you or any other person that is having such difficulty describe, preferably in detail, what you are doing for each of the two wall to wall pulls between each boss (what mitigation abilities at what time, how you are tagging and going from pack to pack, etc.)?
I am just trying to understand where people are having difficulty and maybe there is something that I could spot that could be done differently that would have better results.

[Kabooa]

I've seen a number of people say similar things with their experience leveling DRK in dungeons. My experience leveling DRK from 80 to 90 using exclusively dungeons was vastly different than what you and others have described and so I am genuinely curious as what people are doing and how they are using their mitigation during wall to wall pulls that is resulting in them having so much difficulty.

Could you or any other person that is having such difficulty describe, preferably in detail, what you are doing for each of the two wall to wall pulls between each boss?
I am just trying to understand where people are having difficulty and maybe there is something that I could spot that could be done differently that would have better results.

On paladin and warrior I never had to look at anything beyond the short, rampart, and 120s while leveling. I routinely let Reprisal, Arms Length rot because there was never a need for them, and Thrill + Equil just plain felt like over kill. It took exceptionally low performing parties for me to have to break out emergency measures, such as chain Shield Bashing, for Paladin.

On Gunbreaker and Dark Knight I was routinely stretched thin, even after Oblation was added to the toolkit. Vanaspati was particularly bad on the initial two pulls due to the timeframe between pack pick up and the giant tentacle ladies hitting like trucks - Thankfully those are magic based so Dark Mind and the raid mits were usable there.

Putting it simply, the warrior has an easy time just because the amount of healing they do is stupid. Beyond stupid.

The paladin has an easier time because all of their healing is dealt over time, which compliments the healer preference of slow fill via regens as well. Compared to the gunbreaker, blocking + parrying > just parrying for pack pulls.

The Gunbreaker has a more difficult time because they have no extra restoration in AoE pulls, but HoC is exceedingly good and you still have Superbolide.

The Dark Knight has a more difficult time because packs have a variable size and thus its healing isn't always enough to cancel out a round of autos, have no extra sustain in AoE, Shielding is a burst-up front that doesn't really line up as nicely as Paladin's over-time (IME it seems to inspire complacency where rather than start layering things as usual, they seeem content to do nothing until the shield is gone - so nothing is present to stop the chunking) and doesn't heal nearly as much as Warrior, and Living Dead is basically unusable, compared to Gun/Pal who get two invulns per dungeon that bridge the gap / relieve pressure on the hairier pulls in any leveling dungeon.

The short version is what's already been said. The other tanks can shoulder the weight of underperforming parties and come out mostly fine. The Dark Knight will probably die.

I'll use Vanaspati specifically.

Tag the first mob, hope the party is smart enough to follow and not immediately hit the two who haven't spawned yet because RP transformation. Run to pack. Take a raw hit while everything becomes hittable. TBN + 120s to start, then TBN on cooldown until around about 3 mobs left. Abyssal drain when down around 50% HP. If the DPS is good here, Oblation into Reprisal to finish it off. If not, follow that with Rampart.

Tag the big woman and the two small adds, sprinting down to the next pair. TBN on the way even if it doesn't break because you really don't want to start this pull at 50%. Rampart if it's available, otherwise, Oblation + Arms Length, Low Blow on one of the big woman. We'll be cycling that between each of them once our good CDs are gone. DMind + Missionary. Cycle TBN. if it's a lower DPS part, probably get to do the 120s again, but there's going to be a period in an underperforming party where all 5 enemies are still up and all that's available is TBN. This is the bad place.

Why the second wall to Vanaspati's sucks:

Low mob count, so Abyssal Drain only restores 1000 potency.
The mobs have higher than normal autos. Big Tentacle Mommy needs to chill. At least they're magic damage.
Party performance greatly determines what is available here.
Healers don't get their slick new buff until 86
Tested now to check - Arms Length doesn't work on Tentacle mommy.
You probably don't have 120s burst CDs ready so this will take a bit longer.

[Oizen]

I played DRK 80 from 90 and never upgraded my gear until I absolutely had to at lv 88. I was opening the gear coffers are reaper and selling the contents for money.

I didn't have that bad of a time.

[DarkDredgen]

Your healers are the problem, not DRK.

I can take a DRK through a 90 dungeon wall to wall on my WHM without them using a single cooldown (it's only like 565-570 ilvl). And that's not me bragging that's me highlighting the "real issue" with DRK. They do not play well with the green dps!

Rarely play my WHM (or any healer for that matter) but after leveling it I can't see how anyone is struggling to keep tanks alive to be perfectly honest (if they are able/willing to utilise their full kit.)

I also thought DRK was weak when I was levelling it, but I was also playing it exactly how I played it in Shadowbringers, when I and everybody else was geared up and I was half arsed with defensives doing the mundane. Add that to a bunch of green dps + newbie sages and you got yourself wipe!

Tighten up your CD rotation and a solid 5/10 healer should be keeping you alive.

I'm not dismissing your struggles BTW OP, I thought exactly the same when I leveled it, but improper CD use + a dodgy healer/green dps will get you wiped on anything that isn't a WAR.

Once you get the feel for it you'll have a blast!

[YukikoKurosawa]

Its hard being the highest dps tank I'm sure.

If no healer can keep you up on pulls, maybe the problem isn't the class. Its your gear and or skill with the class.

I have every tank leveled to 90 save DRK which is almost there and I haven't had this problem with other tanks. I know how to use my mitigations. The problem is my health drops so fast the healer struggles to keep up, often forcing me to one-group pull. If it's a skill issue feel free to explain why I don't have this problem with any other tank. I really don't care about your mad over DRK having higher dps I care that the job is borderline broken in terms of survivability which is the primary thing that matters as a tank. It flat out does not have the level of survivability it needs to not be a living pain to play for everyone involved in dungeon content. Don't be deliberately obtuse.

[YukikoKurosawa]

Your healers are the problem, not DRK.

I can take a DRK through a 90 dungeon wall to wall on my WHM

I said that WHMs dont have any serious problem with me as a DRK, it's every other job. Mostly SGEs and SCHs, that are struggling with me when I'm on DRK. I wanna say in some cases the healer is the problem as sometimes I can see myself go 10+ seconds without recieving a single heal while the healer dpses but that's not often the case. Or I've by pure horrendous luck been consistently grouped with the absolute worst healers in my data center since I started leveling DRK but I really, really doubt that's the problem.

[DarkDredgen]

I said that WHMs dont have any serious problem with me as a DRK, it's every other job. Mostly SGEs and SCHs, that are struggling with me when I'm on DRK. I wanna say in some cases the healer is the problem as sometimes I can see myself go 10+ seconds without recieving a single heal while the healer dpses but that's not often the case. Or I've by pure horrendous luck been consistently grouped with the absolute worst healers in my data center since I started leveling DRK but I really, really doubt that's the problem.

OK, it's you and your healers xD

I jest. I'm not saying it's always a walk in the park or anything, but if you're adamant that you are using your CD's efficiently (including AD, TBN on CD, Reprisal and Arms length + round house sack kick I mean low blow) and you have a competent healer and at least average dps...you should be golden.

If not, something in the above is going wrong.

But it is absolutely not because DRK is inherently bad or incapable of tanking.

[RyuDragnier]

Its hard being the highest dps tank I'm sure.

If no healer can keep you up on pulls, maybe the problem isn't the class. Its your gear and or skill with the class.

Oh look, a joker who thinks high DPS = well built job. The DPS means nothing if it's taking away from the healers who are having to throw more your way. DRK struggles harder than the other tanks in dungeon pulls, but excels when it comes to bosses. The problem here is the pulls, and the lack of sustain during them. I get a subpar healer as a PLD/GNB/WAR I can still push through. I get the same subpar healer on a DRK and I'm screwed, period. That's a fault of the job design.