Serious issue with English localization for Foreigners from FFXIV

[Akamadoshi]

I hope this is the accurate thread, otherwise, please move it, sorry!

English is mostly used because it is a world language.
Yet not everyone around the world is a native speaker.
EN is my fourth language, and from the beginning, I have struggled so heavily on EN reading on FFXIV...People call me dumb because I didn't understand the hints and the way things are worded, I missed a huge chunk of SHB and EW lore that was hidden in extremely advanced lingo that I never had known. I've before redone, MSQ from start all the way to SB, 5x, just to understand the story, I did in DE EN, JP, and kanji that is used is complained by many Japanese as well.

I wish for the sake of the story and understanding and enjoying without needing to look up everything, please, for the love of the Twelve, use simpler terms, or if not, use direct intentions, don't hide the real intentions behind complicated lingo or 'make us guess' what they mean by the intent, it ruins immersions, and those who speak it natively, make fun of those who don't because they don't know how it feels speaking secondary language.

I was in shock when listening to podcasts about EW, and I realized that it was not all that I thought the story told me. I totally thought I understood the story, but I 100% did not, and that made me feel upset. It is all because the language used in this game is unnecessarily complicated. Now I do not ask to change Urianger or the way he speaks. But a child NPC does NOT need to use words that even the native speakers have to look up what it means. Please be realistic, it's no use to show off the use of complex linguistic skills. I do not ask to terminate it, but please, make the story understandable. Even SEASONAL events are..... SO hard to understand sometimes... I do not know why it must be so unnecessarily complex when you could use fancy words in simpler grammar, for instance, wouldn't change how FFXIV uses English, but it would make things easier. I don't know how to explain, the anxiety I get from starting MSQ always, is real. I fear not understanding, and it always turns out I never understood...

In Japanese, some things are written fun like this ~♪ making it more understood, in English, not even when there is humor, it is written with ease, it is written too seriously.

The issue breaks immersion. FF14 is just not fun to understand at some level. EW really put a strain on my mental health issues, I didn't know how to ask you guys to stop doing it, so I am attempting here, please, think about foreigners who already have had a hard time studying language, let alone play it. I think foreigners who speak EN are taken for granted far too much.

[Alien_Gamer]

As a native english speaker almost everything said is normal and straightforward; the exceptions being everything Urianger says...and when the story is deliberately hiding things because thats what storytelling does. I've noticed a handful of people using words that seem strange for them to use such as a child in Gridania using proboscis instead of nose but those instances are very rare. Can you give any examples of conversation that you didn't understand because of the wording used?

[Akamadoshi]

I think for native speakers it is difficult to understand what I mean.
For you, English is the one you know and the best you know. For me to give an example sounds self-explanatory to you.
However, I have handful of examples, but even those, may seem weird to one who speaks it every day.
The entire quest, for example Ivalice, I understood not a word, I had also huge issue with Weapon quests, the story's way of explaining technical things, the theories formed in such complex words after words that when you look up definition it becomes harder to put two and two together.

Again and again I am told the English is 'straight forward' but it is truly not for many, for instance, from Europe, or otherwise Oceanian outside AUS/Zealand.

It is the nice example you thankfully have used with the child NPC in the seasonal event too.
Another example which was HUGE, it took me HOURS before I finished it, it was in Amaurot. The NPC debate, the answers, the talks.
My head turned, I even had to take long breaks. It took me not only hours each, it took roughly a day and a half, because it was so much difficulty to understand, and I wanted to understand everything. However, I have less issues when it is cutscenes. If it makes sense? ^^

[Rongway]

The words they use are appropriate for maintaining a particular fantastical air as an English speaker would understand them, since it's an English localization. Consider it an opportunity to expand your vocabulary and grammar. Also don't underestimate the sophistication of children's vocabulary; I know a fair few who wouldn't blink twice at the use of "proboscis" and may even counter with words more impressive still.

[Alien_Gamer]

I understand what you're trying to say and you're right, it is a little awkward for me to see the issue because I am a native speaker. I can try and give you a different perspective on what may be hindering you though.

The Ivalice quest had a couple of things going on in it which will compound the issues a non-native speaker could have. The first is several characters have a different dialect or way of speaking to try and differentiate them from other npcs much in the same way Urianger does from the scions; individually its not a hinderance but having several different types of speaking together could be problematic. The second is the story itself was...convoluted, to put it kindly. A mess if you're less kind. I know several native english speakers that were just left wondering "WTF just happened?!" because it didn't make sense to them. I think its more the convoluted story than the words itself that made it an issue for you.

The weapon quests weren't as convoluted but they suffered from a heavy use of technobabble. Technobabble, as a concept, originated all the way back in Star Trek and basically just means the use of semi random technical sounding words to pad out a description for something, often with the intent of leaving the reader/viewer at a loss for understanding what is actually happening. Usually the best way to handle technobabble is to ignore what is said directly and focus more on the context for the general idea of what is going on. IE, instead of internal combustion engine, its the power source. For a native speaker or something with a great deal of fluency, its not a problem but I can see how it might be an issue for some. But if you can't find understanding through the context all you can really do is move on and hope its clarified later. Sometimes thats all anyone can do, native or not.

Most confusion I've seen regarding Amaurot is from the story itself. They're just starting to open up the final chapters of the story around that time and they're throwing a lot of new information at the player that doesn't fit together well, but its not supposed to. Its like getting a book with 2/3 of the pages removed, its almost nonsense. At the time there was a lot of player speculation for how things fit together, and maybe thats the root of what caused you problems there. Not the the words themselves but how it fit in with the greater picture of the story.

I'm trying not to be presumptuous of what you understand and maybe you've already thought of all that, in which case I apologize.

[Shibi]

To simplify the English for the benefit of non-native speakers would likely take too much flavour away for the native speakers.

The example I will use is from the low level MRD questline, with Sighard and Neddard, where the language the two use carry a Farmer-like accent.

"I beg of ye: find me little Sighard afore 'e gets 'isself stomped to death. That big bastard Aurochs 'as spilled more'n enough o' me kin's blood..."

which sounds a bit plain when written as:

"Please, find little Sighard before he gets himself killed. That big Aurochs has spilled enough of my family's blood..."


I fully realise the first is going to be a problem for people who's native language isn't one of the four the game provides; with it's dropped H's, weird contractions, and regional dialect it's certainly not a simple read, but it does convey a lot more flavour than the second.

I feel for you, as I have similar problems in my non-native languages, all you can do is to keep working on your fluency, maybe find a polyglot friend who can assist.

[AmiableApkallu]

There is a difference between "translation" (roughly, choosing words with the same literal meaning) and "localization" (roughly, translation that also takes into account culture, idioms, etc.).

What FFXIV offers currently is an English localization. It sounds to me that the OP would benefit more from an English translation.

[Akamadoshi]

There is a difference between "translation" (roughly, choosing words with the same literal meaning) and "localization" (roughly, translation that also takes into account culture, idioms, etc.).

What FFXIV offers currently is an English localization. It sounds to me that the OP would benefit more from an English translation.

Where did.... you get that.... horrendous assumption from? Please.

[Akamadoshi]

I understand what you........I'm trying not to be presumptuous of what you understand and maybe you've already thought of all that, in which case I apologize.

Oh wow you made great post!! No no, you actually did say the right things!!
And not only that, what I ask is NOT to simplify common use of English (Because as the post above of user said, it helps vocabulary also) and it is never something I am against of. However, what troubles me is the techno..babble! That! yeah! The, how do I say this, When they try to explain, for instance, many times they make WOL make option "Oh it's that <solution>" which has .... answers where I am like... "What is that" then that is an issue, there have been so many times I couldn't relate. And I do not mean the entirety of English.


As I have stated, it is NOT the slang or Urianger either (I love Urianger's English and Pirates!) Because, strangely, and this may be exclussively me only in this case, it makes it easier for me to pronounce in my head (lol!) but, no, those are 100% never an issue, I love them, they better stay (they do this in Japanese too!)

However, for instance, they use words that, are unnecessarily 'expensive vocabulary' this often happens, when they try to explain the source of issues, or they explain the whole theory behind something, those moments. So I do not talk about, for instance, "Pray return to the Quicksand" this type of English I have come to love (and it also became a meme for a reason!) So, I think I have also explained it a bit excessive because I do not know how to explain it. However, I also have autism, the fact I CAN speak more than 1 language I didn't learn but grow up to know them (not fluent in a weird way) then English, I learned through school/games, so I consider myself very blessed, but then it becomes frustration when I cannot understand what the story is telling (especially under those circumstances they explain) and begins to cause anxiety. I do not know how to communicate this part, but I hope it offers more explanation, and I had heard of this, from many, so I decided, I take a step to try explain my situation to forum. but, I am happy your post explains for me too, thank you!

[AmiableApkallu]

Where did.... you get that.... horrendous assumption from? Please.

Because that's essentially what you asked for:

I wish for the sake of the story and understanding and enjoying without needing to look up everything, please, for the love of the Twelve, use simpler terms, or if not, use direct intentions, don't hide the real intentions behind complicated lingo or 'make us guess' what they mean by the intent, it ruins immersions, and those who speak it natively, make fun of those who don't because they don't know how it feels speaking secondary language.

Localization is where the fancy words and complicated lingo are introduced, because it "sounds better" to native speakers. Localization is where something is phrased indirectly instead of directly, because native speakers understand the implied meaning and intent.

Without that, what you have is a basic translation of the original text.

And if there is still confusing "technobabble" or whatnot at that stage, then it was there in the original source material.