Summoner - Why the new "buffs" are not working

[Aikaal]

Who would bring the 8 DPS that aren't a part of the highest DPS composition in an optimized run? The second you get into the highest level of optimization there are 8 jobs that are instantly not worth it unless a certain job excels in the particular fight. Raise has always costed DPS (because it is an extremely useful tool to learn and recover) and they demonstrably balance around effort which BLM also needs to put significantly more of into high end content than RDM or SMN. Do I personally like Raise being a shackle for only 2 of the 3 casters? Not really, but it's logical to balance around it.

Well, that does bring the concern why Black Mage is so high up there compared to the other casters. What is it right now with melees? Higher is Monk at 9.5k and NIN is lowest at 9k. Samurai isn't even the top pure power melee. You'd have BLM doing 600 to 700 more than SMN/RDM? Sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure both jobs would rather not have raise and be up there with BLM x_x

Should BLM be stronger than SMN/RDM? Yeah but I,d say by 1% to 2% at best. Maybe 3% if you value raise that much.

The thing iwth optimized, speed runs and logs is people won't care about what you play if the difference is minimal. Right now, BLM is doing about 7% to 8% more than RDM/SMN. RDM is about 1% more than SMN which is pretty minimal if you ask me. If BLM wasn't there and you'd look only at RDM and SMN, people wouldn't care. But BLM being that high is absurd. BLM was already stronger than both RDM/SMN.

My question to you is, does raise is worth 7% to 8% more DPS?

[tearagion]

Well, that does bring the concern why Black Mage is so high up there compared to the other casters. What is it right now with melees? Higher is Monk at 9.5k and NIN is lowest at 9k. Samurai isn't even the top pure power melee. You'd have BLM doing 600 to 700 more than SMN/RDM? Sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure both jobs would rather not have raise and be up there with BLM x_x

Should BLM be stronger than SMN/RDM? Yeah but I,d say by 1% to 2% at best. Maybe 3% if you value raise that much.

The thing iwth optimized, speed runs and logs is people won't care about what you play if the difference is minimal. Right now, BLM is doing about 7% to 8% more than RDM/SMN. RDM is about 1% more than SMN which is pretty minimal if you ask me. If BLM wasn't there and you'd look only at RDM and SMN, people wouldn't care. But BLM being that high is absurd. BLM was already stronger than both RDM/SMN.

My question to you is, does raise is worth 7% to 8% more DPS?

Raise is an invaluable progression tool, which means for the important part of a fight (the learning part) for serious progression groups SMN or RDM is invaluable. This forces BLM to compete with the prospect of taking a second melee instead. Is melee damage too high? Maybe, but the premise of my argument is that BLM needs to be at parity with melee not the other casters.

[Aikaal]

Raise is an invaluable progression tool, which means for the important part of a fight (the learning part) for serious progression groups SMN or RDM is invaluable. This forces BLM to compete with the prospect of taking a second melee instead. Is melee damage too high? Maybe, but the premise of my argument is that BLM needs to be at parity with melee not the other casters.

Raise isn't necessary. More often that my healers tell me to keep DPS that they'll raise in my group. My healers rarely die to mechanics. I reckon I could just go on BLM with them and I would provide better support by doing more raw damage. The reality is prog doesn't last forever. Raise is useful but doesn,t warrant a 7% DPS difference to BLM.

By saying BLM needs to do competitive melee damage, you also default this to MCH. If MCH was doing the same DPS than BLM, it would straight invalidate BRD and DNC. Don't forget the most invaluable asset you provide to a group is your damage.

Why did TPS went DRK + GNB? It wasn't because WAR was bad. It's because these tanks were the best damage value. Why did they go SCH + AST? They provided the best DPS options. The only reason they went RPR/BRD/RDM/BLM was because they wanted a third ranged over a second melee. Otherwise it would have been RPR/MNK/BRD/RDM for the race and immediately swap RDM to BLM after. Yeah, Raise is good. I won't deny that, but that's kind of useless once you've cleared. RDM is still popular because of the raise right now but I would make a case that BLM could just bring more than SMN.

Because SMN raise is based if you hold swiftcast. Btw, you don't always. You swiftcast on the burst window. If you swift a raise and it's not up on the next burst window, you lose valuable damage. A lot more than RDM. SMN is already doing less damage than RDM and that swiftcast enables a 610 potency skill in the buff windows instead of a 430/480. Because the raise is restricted, it loses significant value. I reckon that doesn't give a proper reason why BLM is 7% ahead sitting with melees.

You also seems to forget that because any damage issue, SMN rework is broken and needs a rework

Yes, I like the F4 buff. I also think transpose cd increase solves problems, the problems just aren't a big deal at all (2% max potency gains over 8 GCDs kind of magnitude, but less mobile usually). They also aren't strictly bad and are a way for excellent BLM players to push themselves even further. I wouldn't want it changed until something is introduced that delivers similar gameplay without being obscured by regen ticks.

The proper way to kill the Paradox Rotation is make that Despair burns all Umbral Hearts, like Flare.