Summoner - Why the new "buffs" are not working

[SargeTheSeagull]

Here’s my solution to summoner’s clunky gameplay: Let us summon bahamut, Phoenix and any of the gem summons at the start of a fight. Bahamut and Phoenix are on different buttons with independent 45 second (or so) cooldowns. I still think baha/bird should refresh the gems so you can’t just spam titan. IMO this alone would make summoner feel more satisfying and flexible. Another random idea I just had, while Phoenix is out, resurrection should be free and off global. Fits thematically at least.

[Rolder50]

Here’s my solution to summoner’s clunky gameplay: Let us summon bahamut, Phoenix and any of the gem summons at the start of a fight. Bahamut and Phoenix are on different buttons with independent 45 second (or so) cooldowns. I still think baha/bird should refresh the gems so you can’t just spam titan. IMO this alone would make summoner feel more satisfying and flexible. Another random idea I just had, while Phoenix is out, resurrection should be free and off global. Fits thematically at least.

I don't think this would change the rotation that much. People would just do Bahamut -> Phoenix -> 3 legos -> repeat with Bahamut.

Edit: And if you gave people the option of Bahamut OR Phoenix, they would just pick whichever does more damage 99% of the time.

[Aikaal]

It'd be better to offer the option of either Bahamut or Phoenix with a shared 60s CD. Next different summon could get a perk or some buff so you alternate. To begin with, it's weird that Phoenix outdps Bahamut, Bahamut has always been more destruction and phoenix life and rebirth. It's weird they gave Phoenix to begin with. Honestly, it'd make more sense if we had got Phoenix before Bahamut.

[Dragonexx]

The blm buffs were mostly just to get it above rpr since they didn't want to nerf rpr at all. In fact, most of the buff we saw to melee jobs and selfless jobs was supposed to do that but seems by the theorized list only blm and mnk were pushed above rpr. Rpr imo is still overturned for the amount of uility it brings into a party and I really think they going to have to nerf it at some point.

They likely don't want to nerf Reaper because its the new job for the expac. its likely a little overpowered to entice people to play it. I recall the same thing with dancer in Shadowbringers.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

They likely don't want to nerf Reaper because its the new job for the expac. its likely a little overpowered to entice people to play it. I recall the same thing with dancer in Shadowbringers.

Oh yeah, I know why they don't want to nerf rpr but that doesn't mean I completely agree with their decision. Also, I don't remember dnc being overpowered in ShB but that has been so long so I could be wrong plus I didnt main it. I also understand the dev team doesn't like nerfing jobs but they still do. Whenever they over buffed smn in past expacs they turned around and gave nerfs to smn in more than one patch bc it was overperforming. As a smn main I never complained tho since smn was overturned after the 4.1 and 5.1 patches. This is why I said they most likely will nerf rpr at some point if it continues to overperform bc they can only buff the other jobs so much till it starts causing issues with harder content.

[Ariel_Valmont]

Yeahhh, and they gave 4% on BLm that was already stronger than SMN who got 1% so *shrug*

They also gave Machinist 0.2%, they are purepower and doing, on average 1k less than BLM. They have 4% to BLM and 0.2% to MCH... So questioning them is still valid because it doesn't make sense.

Not sure what you expect from SMN when you can literally face roll the keyboard and play the job … BLM should be stronger, hands down.

[Aikaal]

Not sure what you expect from SMN when you can literally face roll the keyboard and play the job … BLM should be stronger, hands down.

Not sure what you expect from SMN when you can literally face roll the keyboard and play the job … BLM should be stronger, hands down.

Actually, I do think it's an issue if 1 caster is doing 700 more rDPS than the 2 other casters. It's not just SMN. Who would bring SMN/RDM for optimized runs? Just bring MNK/Melee/(BRD/DNC)/BLM in 6.08

Should BLM be stronger? Yeah, should it by like 7% overall rDPS? That's a bold statement when people create strategies that literally make their job brain dead with little to no movement.

You can faceroll your keyboard on any job have have an average performance also. Have you heard of this wonderful and great Paradox BLM rotation that was doing 3 to 4% less DPS than the actual rotation but you didn't had to cast a single Fire IV and it is extremely mobile? It still exists. The reason why BLM was overbuffed was to rewards BLMs more for using the proper rotation. Paradox rotation is still 300~400 more DPS than SMN with the same mobility than SMN. All reworks and new jobs in EW are designed to be accessible and easy. MNK was properly done, not SMN. Before damage buffs, they need to fix the rotation issues.

Not gonna lie, I'm kinda glad some people are exposing the memes on SMN since it should start knocking. To be honest, it's a matter of time until most people don't pick SMN and jobs like MCH. Just kill the entire job to make them realize how they massacred their beloved jobs.

[tearagion]

Actually, I do think it's an issue if 1 caster is doing 700 more rDPS than the 2 other casters. It's not just SMN. Who would bring SMN/RDM for optimized runs? Just bring MNK/Melee/(BRD/DNC)/BLM in 6.08

Should BLM be stronger? Yeah, should it by like 7% overall rDPS? That's a bold statement when people create strategies that literally make their job brain dead with little to no movement.

You can faceroll your keyboard on any job have have an average performance also. Have you heard of this wonderful and great Paradox BLM rotation that was doing 3 to 4% less DPS than the actual rotation but you didn't had to cast a single Fire IV and it is extremely mobile? It still exists. The reason why BLM was overbuffed was to rewards BLMs more for using the proper rotation. Paradox rotation is still 300~400 more DPS than SMN with the same mobility than SMN. All reworks and new jobs in EW are designed to be accessible and easy. MNK was properly done, not SMN. Before damage buffs, they need to fix the rotation issues.

Not gonna lie, I'm kinda glad some people are exposing the memes on SMN since it should start knocking. To be honest, it's a matter of time until most people don't pick SMN and jobs like MCH. Just kill the entire job to make them realize how they massacred their beloved jobs.

Who would bring the 8 DPS that aren't a part of the highest DPS composition in an optimized run? The second you get into the highest level of optimization there are 8 jobs that are instantly not worth it unless a certain job excels in the particular fight. Raise has always costed DPS (because it is an extremely useful tool to learn and recover) and they demonstrably balance around effort which BLM also needs to put significantly more of into high end content than RDM or SMN. Do I personally like Raise being a shackle for only 2 of the 3 casters? Not really, but it's logical to balance around it.

[Aikaal]

Who would bring the 8 DPS that aren't a part of the highest DPS composition in an optimized run? The second you get into the highest level of optimization there are 8 jobs that are instantly not worth it unless a certain job excels in the particular fight. Raise has always costed DPS (because it is an extremely useful tool to learn and recover) and they demonstrably balance around effort which BLM also needs to put significantly more of into high end content than RDM or SMN. Do I personally like Raise being a shackle for only 2 of the 3 casters? Not really, but it's logical to balance around it.

Well, that does bring the concern why Black Mage is so high up there compared to the other casters. What is it right now with melees? Higher is Monk at 9.5k and NIN is lowest at 9k. Samurai isn't even the top pure power melee. You'd have BLM doing 600 to 700 more than SMN/RDM? Sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure both jobs would rather not have raise and be up there with BLM x_x

Should BLM be stronger than SMN/RDM? Yeah but I,d say by 1% to 2% at best. Maybe 3% if you value raise that much.

The thing iwth optimized, speed runs and logs is people won't care about what you play if the difference is minimal. Right now, BLM is doing about 7% to 8% more than RDM/SMN. RDM is about 1% more than SMN which is pretty minimal if you ask me. If BLM wasn't there and you'd look only at RDM and SMN, people wouldn't care. But BLM being that high is absurd. BLM was already stronger than both RDM/SMN.

My question to you is, does raise is worth 7% to 8% more DPS?

[tearagion]

Well, that does bring the concern why Black Mage is so high up there compared to the other casters. What is it right now with melees? Higher is Monk at 9.5k and NIN is lowest at 9k. Samurai isn't even the top pure power melee. You'd have BLM doing 600 to 700 more than SMN/RDM? Sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure both jobs would rather not have raise and be up there with BLM x_x

Should BLM be stronger than SMN/RDM? Yeah but I,d say by 1% to 2% at best. Maybe 3% if you value raise that much.

The thing iwth optimized, speed runs and logs is people won't care about what you play if the difference is minimal. Right now, BLM is doing about 7% to 8% more than RDM/SMN. RDM is about 1% more than SMN which is pretty minimal if you ask me. If BLM wasn't there and you'd look only at RDM and SMN, people wouldn't care. But BLM being that high is absurd. BLM was already stronger than both RDM/SMN.

My question to you is, does raise is worth 7% to 8% more DPS?

Raise is an invaluable progression tool, which means for the important part of a fight (the learning part) for serious progression groups SMN or RDM is invaluable. This forces BLM to compete with the prospect of taking a second melee instead. Is melee damage too high? Maybe, but the premise of my argument is that BLM needs to be at parity with melee not the other casters.