Thread: 6.08 Patch Notes

The Cardsystem for ASt works the same as WHM mana management or SCH complex and fun faerie interactions or the DPS rotation of all healers....*sniff* can somebody give some of their compium ? i need a dose

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

well we can argue that mnk buff was not needed, but we can notice that sam (0 partybuff) is still behind mnk and reaper?

Not for raw damage it isn't. And for that sites way of using rdps it needs to not be number one because it contributes more than any other job during buffs by far. So it's contribution is understated in that metric. Sam is probably tied with monk at high level play if not better.

I am just excited for 6.1

Originally Posted by WiccaP

It's not about just caring about numbers, its about feeling useful to the party and not feeling like we bring the whole group down by playing a job we like. Its about the fact that compared to the other ranged physical jobs, mch will have a harder time comparing to them.

This. Thank-you. I have always tried - even in snore-fest inducing content to carry my weight. I feel as it stands now, I just don't want to play MCH anymore, which is sad because it has been my main DPS since HW. I 100% understand the ranged DPS tax - but then how do you justify giving bard and dancer (who both bring party utility to the table) buffs over MCH? Tactician is given to all 3 in some form, please stop using that as "there is your utility". Something is glaringly rotton here and needs fixed before every group ends up being sage, reaper and warrior.

Originally Posted by AzazelCaine

This. Thank-you. I have always tried - even in snore-fest inducing content to carry my weight. I feel as it stands now, I just don't want to play MCH anymore, which is sad because it has been my main DPS since HW. I 100% understand the ranged DPS tax - but then how do you justify giving bard and dancer (who both bring party utility to the table) buffs over MCH? Tactician is given to all 3 in some form, please stop using that as "there is your utility". Something is glaringly rotton here and needs fixed before every group ends up being sage, reaper and warrior.

I mean, RDPS buffs aren't necessarily an end all, be all situation. Not saying I don't think MCH could use some tweaks, maybe --but an uncoordinated group that improperly plays around RDPS buffs is generally going to benefit from a job that just supplies raw, adps (So like, MCH/BLM/SAM). So, I don't think MCH needs it's own DMG+ buff, or more utility (okay I won't say no to seeing pallisade again in some form), but it should generally be supplying more damage (in a perfect balanced world) than a BRD/DNC in their ADPS vs. their RDPS contributions on average.

It's even like before, comparing RPR + SAM -- SAM supplied a lot more DPS under buffs than RPR could, when played well, while RPR beat out SAM in RDPS contribution on average (but SAM beat out RPR in ADPS, generally speaking -- and MNK was technically above both, though that was more of a high end thing as I don't know if MNK itself has a more complicated skill floor than RPR or SAM, which will skew things -- it's the job I've played the least).

Even now, if someone picked the lowest DPS melee job, which I think is still NIN, I don't feel like they're a detriment to a run -- they won't be able to carry a run as hard as SAM/MNK now, but their contribution isn't negligible (whereas, prior, Dancer contributions felt incredibly low especially relative to their role slot -- definitely not unviably low, but a low that could be felt, similar to PLD's state).

Not saying, again, that tweaks are unnecessary/unneeded/unwanted etc... but more saying that at this juncture, there isn't really a job (Tank/DPS/Healer) that's a detriment to the party, or even performing so much lower than their cohorts that a 1% enrage in PF might feel related to job choice. (And even then, any enrage, even prior to these buffs, aside from week 1 4S~, is usually more an issue with "I can't carry harder than this on PLD/DNC" when the other party members are struggling to push buttons/survive).

SAM and BLM got some buffs, which makes sense as a selfish DPS being at the top.
DRG needed some buffs to be competing with RPR. This update is a good buff for them. The change to tether I assume is because sometimes the DPS you give your tether to moves out of range and then you just lose your DPS buff as opposed to if you just gave it to yourself.
DNC got some buffs, which was much needed - even accounting for its support DPS by buffing others, the damage was still on the low side in rDPS. Now it's competing with BRD, so that's good.


PLD got some much needed buffs based on its DPS as it was lagging quite behind in comparison to other tanks. It's in a good spot now.
WAR getting a buff on Tomahawk is more like... WAR didn't really need any buffs, but here's a consolation to not feel left out until you get your dash.

Speaking of left out, rest in pieces, DRK and healers. White mage in particular needs a bit more buffs in its MP management in contrast to the other healers - just a bit more. Afflatus Misery's potency could also be bumped up to be DPS neutral too.

For DRK and the other healers, the problem doesn't really rely on potency as much as it does on gameplay issues revolving around its toolkit. Even if all the tanks got buffed, DRK's position in mitigation isn't as impactful as the other two in overall mitigation. In the event they want to keep tanks to be more tanky, healers really need something else to do outside of .. healing that does nothing at full HP with how many ways the tanks can restore HP? Don't get me wrong, I'm super happy that other jobs have more utility. It's just that ... spamming Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis because there's nothing to to do other than 1 button DPS when no healing is required will get very stale, and very fast. Hopefully it will be addressed in 6.1 though, as 6.08 was mainly potency changes.

Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

...Even if all the tanks got buffed, DRK's position in mitigation isn't as impactful as the other two in overall mitigation...

Are you kidding? DRK mitigation feels as good as it ever has, even better now that you have oblation up at every time you need to use mit. DRK feels like it takes barely any damage at the moment if you plan your mitigation correctly. PLD and GNB feel a bit squish compared, and WAR is only really good after you have took damage, self heal is never going to be as good as prevention.

DRK mostly feels weird because of its lack of self-sustain compared to the other tanks.

I've been able to salvage healer-less situations in dungeons with the other three tanks, but TBN simply isn't potent enough to keep everyone from rolling over within a few instances of unavoidable damage comparatively.

Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Are you kidding? DRK mitigation feels as good as it ever has, even better now that you have oblation up at every time you need to use mit. DRK feels like it takes barely any damage at the moment if you plan your mitigation correctly. PLD and GNB feel a bit squish compared, and WAR is only really good after you have took damage, self heal is never going to be as good as prevention.

Lemme rephrase - It can survive on its own to a certain extent, but god forbid if you need to save others to prepare for a raidwide & a tankbuster, but the healer is down. DRK's essentially doomed. It lives up to the definition of a tank, but it can't step out of its bounds in its role to 'protect another' whereas PLD, WAR, and GNB can without too much issue because they can heal back up later. DRK either gives a 10% mit, or gives their TBN to someone else. Their natural sustain isn't as good as the others, so their recovery is very gimped. The other roles can also save themselves if they are required to use their invuln, but DRK specifically requires a healer - and a pure healer at that. Chances are, SGE and SCH won't be able to save DRK because they would pre-emptively be healing to prevent DRK from ever needing to use their invuln in the first place.

In a bigger skill cap difference, DRK suffers more exactly because their invuln isn't really a skill they can fall back on based on party comp. Plus, it still consumes healer resources to utilize and remove, so the skill has a lot of downsides to its usage.

Living dead is never going to be fixed, my crackpot theory is that it's because it validates whm, without living dead there would be no reason to play or even allow that bad job in any content.