Thread: 6.08 Patch Notes

Originally Posted by WiccaP

It's not about just caring about numbers, its about feeling useful to the party and not feeling like we bring the whole group down by playing a job we like. Its about the fact that compared to the other ranged physical jobs, mch will have a harder time comparing to them.

This. Thank-you. I have always tried - even in snore-fest inducing content to carry my weight. I feel as it stands now, I just don't want to play MCH anymore, which is sad because it has been my main DPS since HW. I 100% understand the ranged DPS tax - but then how do you justify giving bard and dancer (who both bring party utility to the table) buffs over MCH? Tactician is given to all 3 in some form, please stop using that as "there is your utility". Something is glaringly rotton here and needs fixed before every group ends up being sage, reaper and warrior.

Originally Posted by AzazelCaine

This. Thank-you. I have always tried - even in snore-fest inducing content to carry my weight. I feel as it stands now, I just don't want to play MCH anymore, which is sad because it has been my main DPS since HW. I 100% understand the ranged DPS tax - but then how do you justify giving bard and dancer (who both bring party utility to the table) buffs over MCH? Tactician is given to all 3 in some form, please stop using that as "there is your utility". Something is glaringly rotton here and needs fixed before every group ends up being sage, reaper and warrior.

I mean, RDPS buffs aren't necessarily an end all, be all situation. Not saying I don't think MCH could use some tweaks, maybe --but an uncoordinated group that improperly plays around RDPS buffs is generally going to benefit from a job that just supplies raw, adps (So like, MCH/BLM/SAM). So, I don't think MCH needs it's own DMG+ buff, or more utility (okay I won't say no to seeing pallisade again in some form), but it should generally be supplying more damage (in a perfect balanced world) than a BRD/DNC in their ADPS vs. their RDPS contributions on average.

It's even like before, comparing RPR + SAM -- SAM supplied a lot more DPS under buffs than RPR could, when played well, while RPR beat out SAM in RDPS contribution on average (but SAM beat out RPR in ADPS, generally speaking -- and MNK was technically above both, though that was more of a high end thing as I don't know if MNK itself has a more complicated skill floor than RPR or SAM, which will skew things -- it's the job I've played the least).

Even now, if someone picked the lowest DPS melee job, which I think is still NIN, I don't feel like they're a detriment to a run -- they won't be able to carry a run as hard as SAM/MNK now, but their contribution isn't negligible (whereas, prior, Dancer contributions felt incredibly low especially relative to their role slot -- definitely not unviably low, but a low that could be felt, similar to PLD's state).

Not saying, again, that tweaks are unnecessary/unneeded/unwanted etc... but more saying that at this juncture, there isn't really a job (Tank/DPS/Healer) that's a detriment to the party, or even performing so much lower than their cohorts that a 1% enrage in PF might feel related to job choice. (And even then, any enrage, even prior to these buffs, aside from week 1 4S~, is usually more an issue with "I can't carry harder than this on PLD/DNC" when the other party members are struggling to push buttons/survive).

Originally Posted by AzazelCaine

This. Thank-you. I have always tried - even in snore-fest inducing content to carry my weight. I feel as it stands now, I just don't want to play MCH anymore, which is sad because it has been my main DPS since HW. I 100% understand the ranged DPS tax - but then how do you justify giving bard and dancer (who both bring party utility to the table) buffs over MCH? Tactician is given to all 3 in some form, please stop using that as "there is your utility". Something is glaringly rotton here and needs fixed before every group ends up being sage, reaper and warrior.

Same here, MCH since HW.
In HW I was "too useful", in SB you had the horrible Flamethrower but the job remained useful.
In ShB, MCH wasn't the worst Ranged DPS, it would only bring DPS and that was it. A common feedback was "more utility", but this was ignored.
Now in 6.08, it still only brings DPS except this time it's behind DNC that can shield and heal.

Since media tour, I decided to go GNB/SGE. Went GNB, I don't have the DPS of a MCH but at least I feel useful to the party.
And that's what matters, what we want.

Originally Posted by CKNovel

A common feedback was "more utility", but this was ignored.

Every subrole of DPS has a "selfish" job. MCH is the physical ranged selfish job. Unless they strip all the utility away from DNC or BRD (or make a new physical ranged), you're not getting utility.

Originally Posted by SnowVix

Every subrole of DPS has a "selfish" job. MCH is the physical ranged selfish job. Unless they strip all the utility away from DNC or BRD (or make a new physical ranged), you're not getting utility.

No, but they should buff MCH to be at the top of the physical ranged dps, before BRD and DNC. This ain't going to happen anytime due to the stupid "ranged tax" that limits the dps rang they have allocated to the role ("stupid" as the casters are pretty mobile themselves these days).