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  1. #1
    Player
    Hippo's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    240
    Character
    Miru Miru
    World
    Gungnir
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    i think SE designed the content this way is to satisfy both casual and hardcore players. I don't think content like Absolute Virtue in FFXI will appear again in FFXIV
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Isaaru's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    650
    Character
    Leif Gehrman
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Hippo View Post
    i think SE designed the content this way is to satisfy both casual and hardcore players. I don't think content like Absolute Virtue in FFXI will appear again in FFXIV
    The thing is the current content only satisfies a small number of players due to their luck.
    (1)
    http://mercsxiv.enjin.com/home

  3. #3
    Player
    Zezlar's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    1,618
    Character
    Athalia Hartfell
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 85
    Quote Originally Posted by Hippo View Post
    i think SE designed the content this way is to satisfy both casual and hardcore players. I don't think content like Absolute Virtue in FFXI will appear again in FFXIV
    I don't understand how it was meant to satisfy each group. The casuals don't have the time to put in for such horrendous drop rates, so they're not going to be able to dedicate as much time to getting anything from the raids. The hardcore spam the content so much that they begin to loathe and burn out in a week or two. This type of content is simply bad. The dungeons themselves are fine, but I don't see this process flying in 2.0
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Isaaru's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    650
    Character
    Leif Gehrman
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 50
    Lux... no.

    This is how it works without a wall of text. The chance of failing all 100 times with a 97% failure rate is 0.97^100. This is equivalent to 0.0476 or 4.76% chance. The chance of failing 10 times with the same rate of failure is 0.97^10 which equals 0.7374 or 73.74%. You have a lower chance of failure with more repetitions.

    Yes in the end everyone will have the same rate of drop after massive amounts of runs, but you will not gain more equipment per day only running 10 times than a person who will run 100 times. It's the same proportional loss no matter what. You succeed 3% of the time and lose 97%.
    (6)
    Last edited by Isaaru; 05-14-2012 at 12:44 PM.
    http://mercsxiv.enjin.com/home

  5. #5
    Player

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaaru View Post
    Lux... no.

    This is how it works without a wall of text. The chance of failing all 100 times with a 97% failure rate is 0.97^100. This is equivalent to 0.0476 or 4.76% chance. The chance of failing 10 times with the same rate of failure is 0.97^10 which equals 0.7374 or 73.74%. You have a lower chance of failure with more repetitions.

    Yes in the end everyone will have the same rate of drop after massive amounts of runs, but you will not gain more equipment per day only running 10 times than a person who will run 100 times. It's the same proportional loss no matter what. You succeed 3% of the time and lose 97%.
    Isaaru is my hero finally someone who can shut up that Incessant Lux and the math skills of a 4y/o,

    I too support lockouts I feel like the content from FFXI Limbus was the best example of how droprates should be run, guaranteed drops but with a moderate 2 day lockout. If you were very skilled you could lowman and increase your drop rates (by winning with less ppl it allows you to fully gear your group in less runs). Also the content tied in other areas of the game with AF+1's and had mobs with varying weakness's so you could not class stack the whole thing.
    (0)
    How Durandal Rolls
    Quote Originally Posted by DexterityJones View Post
    as a monk you can find the hole and fill it with a fist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Belial View Post
    Bow Chica Bow-Wow...

  6. #6
    Player
    Lux_Rayna's Avatar
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    Dec 2011
    Posts
    911
    Character
    Vynce Walker
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Miner Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Isaaru View Post
    Lux... no.

    This is how it works without a wall of text. The chance of failing all 100 times with a 97% failure rate is 0.97^100. This is equivalent to 0.0476 or 4.76% chance. The chance of failing 10 times with the same rate of failure is 0.97^10 which equals 0.7374 or 73.74%. You have a lower chance of failure with more repetitions.

    Yes in the end everyone will have the same rate of drop after massive amounts of runs, but you will not gain more equipment per day only running 10 times than a person who will run 100 times. It's the same proportional loss no matter what. You succeed 3% of the time and lose 97%.
    I never said you would get more equipment per day. What I am saying is that the more time you invest per day in losing odds, the more time you lose per day. Is it proportionally the same? Sure. But wasting 10 hours is a lot more exhausting than wasting 2 hours. You continue repetitions, but in measured amounts that wont leave you burned out. That was the point.

    As far as statistics through repetition goes, I appreciate the lesson but I fail to see how that affects the probability of individual outcomes. All you've told me is that a given probability of failing x number of times/100. Does that mean attempt 50 has a higher probability of success than attempt 15? Does attempt 99 have higher chance of success than attempt 2? From what I've read and understood, probability of individual outcomes will always remain constant. Calculating the probability of a series of outcomes (ie getting 6 drops out of 100 runs, or failing 100 times out of 100) should not affect the probability of individual outcomes (each successive run). If this is grossly incorrect then please do more math for me. But I can't find a damn thing that states otherwise at the moment.

    Anyway looking at the coin flip example I appreciate the correction. Still, it doesn't change the fact that spamming something doesnt help you in a low-odds game. What matters is consistent trials. If you consistently try you will succeed, but you can't be consistent if you get burnt out and quit. Hence, its quite foolish to waste 97% of your effort in ways that will burn you out. It is much smarter, and equally as effective I might add, to spread out your trials in a way that failure will not have much of an effect on you.

    EDIT: As for the random hater who contributed nothing intelligent to the discussion, I love you. No homo. And i'm sorry but being corrected does not shut me up. Call me incessant if you will, but as a smart man I really have no fear of being corrected and saying something incorrect. It only makes me smarter. Only children or ppl with low-self esteem run away from discussions because they were incorrect about something. C'mon son lol...don't place your insecurities on me.
    (0)
    Last edited by Lux_Rayna; 05-15-2012 at 07:46 AM.

  7. #7
    Player Denmo's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Inn Room
    Posts
    1,498
    Character
    Denmo Mcstronghuge
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    My 2 cents on this (and every) hardcore content issue:



    (forum shrinks it, so click here for full size)

    sorry for the quality. This topic inspired me, so I doodled it up in about 15 minutes.
    (6)
    Last edited by Denmo; 05-14-2012 at 01:07 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Hippo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    240
    Character
    Miru Miru
    World
    Gungnir
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Zezlar View Post
    I don't understand how it was meant to satisfy each group. The casuals don't have the time to put in for such horrendous drop rates, so they're not going to be able to dedicate as much time to getting anything from the raids. The hardcore spam the content so much that they begin to loathe and burn out in a week or two. This type of content is simply bad. The dungeons themselves are fine, but I don't see this process flying in 2.0
    If SE make it too easy, the hardcore will complete the content within a week and complain that theres nothing to do.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Hippo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    240
    Character
    Miru Miru
    World
    Gungnir
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Isaaru View Post
    The thing is the current content only satisfies a small number of players due to their luck.
    I don't understand why some people knows the abyssmal drop rate and still CHOOSE to frustrate themselves by doing it.
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player
    Jokerz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    272
    Character
    Axel Smith
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Hippo View Post
    I don't understand why some people knows the abyssmal drop rate and still CHOOSE to frustrate themselves by doing it.
    Because there's nothing else to do? Seriously if SE doesn't do something the game is gonna flop because of their lazyness with these events. I'm pretty sure the reason a lot of players have stuck with the game is hinging on what 2.0 brings and a loyalty to SE. If this was any other publisher outside of maybe blizzard I doubt we be talking about this stuff right now.

    This whole argument about people being loot whores and QQ'ing about drop rates because they can't have elite gear. No just no.... people are just becoming fed up with lazy content. Please someone point to any of the content available to us and tell me it's creative, refreshing, and challenging.... I bet no one can. As I've said SE has the capabilities to give players something better then speed runs. A lot of people want challenging content that has layers of difficulty to it. There's something wrong when a player base can figure out how to dumb down content within hours. Where's the Salvage layer of difficulty with multiple paths and turns to take to pop certain NM's? Wheres the NM chains of sky and sea where we had to figure out how to pop the NM's(after exploring and finding the base NM's) Content such as this could easily occupy players for months without fail after fail(each time you step into the event you try something new each time)Currently the game feels like yoshi said "Make it like wow!" and slapped a for sell sticker on it><I'm not asking for a copy paste of these events mind you, but was using them as examples of what is possible, and why people are fed up.

    As for the comments about slowing down and making the game a challenge for myself... I'm human. I think logically and for me purposely slowing myself down or hindering myself doesn't make sense. I'm the type that likes to give my 100% whenever I do something. I also like to make use of my time if I can try to stay busy. Telling someone like me to slowdown is just not possible when people like me thrive on pressure. And regardless of what people may think, there are others like me who (shocker) can be casual as well. There's also no reason to try different strategies with the current endgame content. What works works, it's not the player bases fault for burning through content when the content is pretty generic and linear.
    (3)

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