Trends in content types and faux difficulty

[Lux_Rayna]

And so we should punish players that don't abuse exploits and/or class stacking since it will likely take them longer to complete the content the first time, cause once they finally do, the boss at the end of the dungeon isn't Miser's Mistress, it's the RNG, and there is NO strategy for beating him. My ls (the one Sol is in) was first on our server to clear Aurum Vale, we never stacked MNKs, our first 5 chest speedrun was with PLD WAR MNK DRG BRD WHM WHM BLM (every job is represented at least once). But when we complete content as it was intended 400+ times (w/ 300+ speedruns), the content goes stale really fast, I enjoyed the dungeon the first 200 times, but after that I felt betrayed. I personally don't have a SINGLE piece of DL (and I showed up for 99% of our runs - it was not out of lack of attendance), our ls hasn't seen a SINGLE body drop, not once. So yes, we want content that rewards skill rather than luck, that doesn't need to be beaten to death to see results. With that system in place, who can blame people for wanting to take the easy way out.

I really dont consider it a punishment because I don't punish myself into running something hundreds of times. You know what I did to get my Ifrit weapons? Did Ifrit about 2-5 times a day, depending on how fun the party was. Within 3 days (so 15 runs max) I had the 2 weapons I wanted, an ifrit weapon i didnt want, and a handful of totems. Luck? Absolutely. Was it fun? Absolutely. Punishing? Absolutely not. The fault lies with players approaching luck-based systems the wrong way. By wrong I, of course, mean the most punishing, masochistic, and ineffective way possible. Trust me when I say, you *never* want to prove low odds true. Ever. And low odds will prove true the more attempts you make over a given amount of time. If you spread em out, you might be able to beat the odds with much less pain. If you run it a few times and get nothin, just stop for the day. It may sound superstitious but trust me when i say its not worth it. In any game of odds, luck can be very streaky. Don't ask me why, but its true. If you're on a hot streak, you can't miss. If you're on a bad streak, you will fail no matter how many times you try. This happens in real life and in rng. Why it happens no one will ever know. Is there a lady luck? Who the hell knows. All I know is you have to set limits on things or you will kill yourself.

I do believe that there needs to be variety though. Like I said before, the whole luck thing isnt for everyone. It requires a lot of patience, discipline, and of course luck. Its mental torture for some folks so there needs to be guaranteed reward based content as well. For whatever reason SE hasn't gotten around to it, probably due to having trouble balancing content difficulty. I'm all for other options though, but the luck thing is only punishing if ppl do it wrong. As it stands, just about everyone does it wrong except for the few who understand how to do it right.

[TerahValeth]

I really dont consider it a punishment because I don't punish myself into running something hundreds of times. You know what I did to get my Ifrit weapons? Did Ifrit about 2-5 times a day, depending on how fun the party was. Within 3 days (so 15 runs max) I had the 2 weapons I wanted, an ifrit weapon i didnt want, and a handful of totems. Luck? Absolutely. Was it fun? Absolutely. Punishing? Absolutely not. The fault lies with players approaching luck-based systems the wrong way. By wrong I, of course, mean the most punishing, masochistic, and ineffective way possible...

For starters, let me make it clear that I have no problem w/ the Primals, the drop rate isn't great, but it's decent enough, couple that w/ the "totem system" and you have a formula that at least takes skill into account. My problem lies w/ content like Aurum, Cutters, and the Hamlets (the trend that the game seems to be evolving towards) where the drop rate is so terribly low that skill takes a back seat to factors like "can I run the dungeon 40+ hours a week". Our ls really only has event nights 2-3 times a week, we only do the dungeon 5-6 times in an event day. The problem is that THAT level of devotion to the task at hand DOESN'T increase the odds, and SKILL doesn't increase the odds. What motivation does anyone have to try to be the best they can be at their class/job if you can half-ass it and get lucky in a pickup party? I just want it so luck isn't the ONLY factor (or even the primary factor) I'm not saying it should be eliminated by any means, but it should take a back seat to skill, not the other way around.

Edit: oh yeah, and let's not forget Stronghold bosses, where you get a really low percentage drop rate on the key, which then has (presumably) a 1/8 chance to drop to you, and then you get to bang your head against the RNG for the chest. Let's be generous and say the key drop and chest have a 10% chance each of dropping (assuming anything from chest other than crap), that's 1/10 chance for key, times 1/8 chance you get the key over the other players, and 1/10 that the chest drops the desired item, that gives you a 0.125% chance every time the boss is killed that you'll get the item you're going after (and I'm pretty sure the drop rates are lower than 10%). This is SE being lazy to prolong content, where the content should stand on it's own, it should take a long time to get through the content because it's challenging.

[Lux_Rayna]

For starters, let me make it clear that I have no problem w/ the Primals, the drop rate isn't great, but it's decent enough, couple that w/ the "totem system" and you have a formula that at least takes skill into account. My problem lies w/ content like Aurum, Cutters, and the Hamlets (the trend that the game seems to be evolving towards) where the drop rate is so terribly low that skill takes a back seat to factors like "can I run the dungeon 40+ hours a week". Our ls really only has event nights 2-3 times a week, we only do the dungeon 5-6 times in an event day. The problem is that THAT level of devotion to the task at hand DOESN'T increase the odds, and SKILL doesn't increase the odds. What motivation does anyone have to try to be the best they can be at their class/job if you can half-ass it and get lucky in a pickup party? I just want it so luck isn't the ONLY factor (or even the primary factor) I'm not saying it should be eliminated by any means, but it should take a back seat to skill, not the other way around.

Well there should be varied dungeon content. Let me open by saying that much. It really shouldn't all be luck-based, so hopefully they'll add different dungeons with different drop systems. That being said, I find AV/CC fine. Hamlets im not sure about because of all the effort required, but time will tell with that.

The problem is people feel entitled to the best gear possible. At all times. Because they feel entitled, they figure that with enough effort they should be rewarded with it. They dont want to see "the lucky few," they want equality. This gaming philosophy, or psychology if you prefer, pivots around the whole issue of equal rewards for equal effort. Everyone wants to be the best if they try hard enough. This makes me gag, but different strokes for different folks. I get it. Though life doesnt work that way, I imagine ppl play games so they can escape that cruel reality. Either way, this is the way players think. As a result, whenever the next tier gear comes out, everyone feels they have to have it, and should get it. No matter how low the drop rate is, they will spam it 40 hours a week, and kill themselves pursuing crap they have no control over. Idc how many times you run it, it doesn't increase your odds at all. 3% is 3% no matter how you slice it, and more effort doesn't necessarily get you there any faster. It might, but it might not. At the end of the day its smarter to just let luck go where it goes and put all that wasted energy into other endeavors that could help you meet your goal of being the best. There are plenty of options, from melds to primals to even GC gear these days. Even if it *must* be Darklight due to some weird obsession, you don't need a full set within a week. That gear will be some of the best for months. There's no rush, take it slow.

Dungeons dont need to be run 40 hours a week, that may not even help you get it any faster at all. Even if it *did* help you, there's no one to say it would significantly help you. More likely than not, it'll hurt you, because over the long run 97% of your time will be absolutely wasted. Players are just approaching this the wrooooong way. If you come correct, you'll find its really not bad at all. More isn't always better, especially when it comes to crazy low odds. A smart gambling man sets his limits, and stops once he reaches them. He knows that the more he plays the odds, the more he'll lose. The idea is to play them to a certain limit, and then quit. When you get on a hot streak, ride the hot streak, then quit. If you're on a losing streak, ride it to your predefined limit, then quit. Whether you do it 10 times a day, or 3000 times a day, your odds are still the same. No need to kill yourself for some illusion of getting closer to that lucky drop. Every outcome is independent, is completely unaffected by the last outcome (altho streaks make this seem like crap), so take it slow.

Really think about it. If you have a 97% chance to lose would you really wanna try your hand at that 40 hours a week? Hell no. Do a couple runs at a time and hope luck falls your way. Use all your other time to pursue other goals...like HQ's or even double melds/triple melds...which have much higher odds than darklight btw. Don't put the darklight on a pedestal!

[TerahValeth]

Really think about it. If you have a 97% chance to lose would you really wanna try your hand at that 40 hours a week? Hell no. Do a couple runs at a time and hope luck falls your way. Use all your other time to pursue other goals...like HQ's or even double melds/triple melds...which have much higher odds than darklight btw. Don't put the darklight on a pedestal!

As a main Black Mage, the Darklight is worthless for me as it is (so I'm by no means putting on a pedestal). The best gear for me is double/triple melded gear (purely luck-based endeavors) so my alternative is bang my head (and blow my gil) against that RNG.

That aside, why even try something if you only have a 1% chance at succeeding? I wouldn't put money down at the black jack table w/ those odds, so why would I want to spend 30 mins of my time fighting the same odds. Also, I specifically said NOT to take RNG out of the game, but just to weigh skill higher than luck. I'm not impressed when I see someone in hard to obtain gear, because I know they just got lucky. By the same token, how can I feel a sense of accomplishment for obtaining something when it really just boils down to luck? Where is the value in doing anything in life w/out the incentive to do it well? I also never said to make ANYTHING 100% drop rate, but since we're not in a casino, yes I believe skill should increase the odds.