Trends in content types and faux difficulty

[MrKupo]

I think my whole issue with this is the idea that lvl 50 isn't really end-game. It is a temporaty end-game, yes, but in the long run (if there is a long run) it won't be. People are currently doing 15min runs of Toto-Rak and getting drops frequently. By this game's true end-game, this may be the same for current end-game content.

But my real issue with this whole argument is the fact that people need to get these items in the first place. What do people so desperately need these items for to do 200 speed runs at any given time? There's no PVP yet and there's no content beyond the current end-game. So why push yourself to that limit to the point you are tired of the content when you know very well that there's nothing after that? I think the drop-rates are fine. I don't get ousted from a party for not having those drops so it is no problem to me. I can find just as good gear by other means.

Word of advice, take your damn time or you'll tire yourself out. No matter what SE does, there's people that are going to spam whatever they can whenever. Remember when it was 8 leves every 36 hours? People would complete the 8 in a manner of minutes and then sit in game complaining about nothing to do. There was a problem there i admit, but there are those people that are using the current leve system and they have 0 leve allowances. Stop for a second and take a breather. Ask yourself, 'Do I really need to keep myself up for 12 straight hours to do this raid or can I just leave it to luck?'

Flipping a coin a million times doesn't increase the chances of a heads. It only solidifies the fact that it is 50 50.

[Sol_Aureus]

I think my whole issue with this is the idea that lvl 50 isn't really end-game. It is a temporaty end-game, yes, but in the long run (if there is a long run) it won't be. People are currently doing 15min runs of Toto-Rak and getting drops frequently. By this game's true end-game, this may be the same for current end-game content.

But my real issue with this whole argument is the fact that people need to get these items in the first place. What do people so desperately need these items for to do 200 speed runs at any given time? There's no PVP yet and there's no content beyond the current end-game. So why push yourself to that limit to the point you are tired of the content when you know very well that there's nothing after that? I think the drop-rates are fine. I don't get ousted from a party for not having those drops so it is no problem to me. I can find just as good gear by other means.

Word of advice, take your damn time or you'll tire yourself out. No matter what SE does, there's people that are going to spam whatever they can whenever. Remember when it was 8 leves every 36 hours? People would complete the 8 in a manner of minutes and then sit in game complaining about nothing to do. There was a problem there i admit, but there are those people that are using the current leve system and they have 0 leve allowances. Stop for a second and take a breather. Ask yourself, 'Do I really need to keep myself up for 12 straight hours to do this raid or can I just leave it to luck?'

Flipping a coin a million times doesn't increase the chances of a heads. It only solidifies the fact that it is 50 50.

By that logic why play an MMO at all? Why get gear? There's nothing to use it on other than what you're already doing to get that gear.

But that's what MMOs like this are. We as players constantly chase the carrot at the end of the stick trying to get the best gear, or be the best in PVP, or clear the hardest content. Getting stuff is fun.

[MrKupo]

By that logic why play an MMO at all? Why get gear? There's nothing to use it on other than what you're already doing to get that gear.

But that's what MMOs like this are. We as players constantly chase the carrot at the end of the stick trying to get the best gear, or be the best in PVP, or clear the hardest content. Getting stuff is fun.

Getting stuff is fun. But you can't leave everything up to the developers to make it fun. If you push yourself too hard, it stops being fun and becomes a chore. Why not do a normal run every once in a while? God forbid you actually enjoy the journey instead of the destination.

[Sol_Aureus]

Getting stuff is fun. But you can't leave everything up to the developers to make it fun. If you push yourself too hard, it stops being fun and becomes a chore. Why not do a normal run every once in a while? God forbid you actually enjoy the journey instead of the destination.

But that's my point. I want to enjoy the journey. Making dungeons spamable with abysmally low drop rates is counterintuitive to that end.

I could only do a couple runs every other day to simulate the lockout, yes, but then it gets really old because of the abysmally low drop rate. Having a 1-3 day lockout with higher drop rates makes it so the dungeon doesn't become stale and people will still want to continue doing it because there's a decent chance at loot.

[TerahValeth]

Getting stuff is fun. But you can't leave everything up to the developers to make it fun. If you push yourself too hard, it stops being fun and becomes a chore. Why not do a normal run every once in a while? God forbid you actually enjoy the journey instead of the destination.

But the destination is the reason to take the journey in the first place, it's the motivation that drives us forward. You wouldn't take a one way road when you know in advance that it isn't going to lead you anywhere. The hope is that Dark Matter City is just a stop along the way, but I've been stuck there so long now that I want to leave it and see something new.

[MrKupo]

But the destination is the reason to take the journey in the first place, it's the motivation that drives us forward. You wouldn't take a one way road when you know in advance that it isn't going to lead you anywhere. The hope is that Dark Matter City is just a stop along the way, but I've been stuck there so long now that I want to leave it and see something new.

For some people yes. I enjoy the chase just as much as I enjoy eventually having the items. Just like I enjoy learning a new class and learning the ins and outs just as much as I enjoy being at level cap. This is why I don't PL, this is why I don't rush the content to the point of hatred. I know I'm not the only one. And I'm not saying you have to be like me to enjoy the game. I'm not REALLY trying to argue one or the other. They need to fix the drop rate, that much is clear. But players can at least try to enjoy the journey. I'm just trying to remind people that there is enjoyment in the process that people are just skipping right over.

But I have been there. It is frustrating only getting Dark Matter when you want some actual good loot. But it isn't as bad when you are playing through the game with people you like and having a good time.

[Nullie]

I think my whole issue with this is the idea that lvl 50 isn't really end-game. It is a temporaty end-game, yes, but in the long run (if there is a long run) it won't be. People are currently doing 15min runs of Toto-Rak and getting drops frequently. By this game's true end-game, this may be the same for current end-game content.

That is exactly how I feel.

But my real issue with this whole argument is the fact that people need to get these items in the first place. What do people so desperately need these items for to do 200 speed runs at any given time? There's no PVP yet and there's no content beyond the current end-game. So why push yourself to that limit to the point you are tired of the content when you know very well that there's nothing after that? I think the drop-rates are fine. I don't get ousted from a party for not having those drops so it is no problem to me. I can find just as good gear by other means.

Do you just assume people "desperately" want them or do you think they just want to be rewarded for playing the game. Do you think they want to be prepared when new content comes out instead of having to worry about doing a bunch? You say it yourself. There's no content. So what else can you do? Stand around? Log off? If people choose to play the game like that they should. There's nothing wrong with that.

Word of advice, take your damn time or you'll tire yourself out. No matter what SE does, there's people that are going to spam whatever they can whenever. Remember when it was 8 leves every 36 hours? People would complete the 8 in a manner of minutes and then sit in game complaining about nothing to do. There was a problem there i admit, but there are those people that are using the current leve system and they have 0 leve allowances. Stop for a second and take a breather. Ask yourself, 'Do I really need to keep myself up for 12 straight hours to do this raid or can I just leave it to luck?'

Is there something wrong with having 0 leve allowances? Is that something you're not suppose to ever reach? Like the real zero is 50 and you need to take a break there. I don't quite understand that. Some people do things differently than you do. I have full 99 leves all the time. Should someone say to me "Hey, Stop doing what you're doing and use some of those leves. There are people out there who have 0 you know and you're wasting them." Sorry, that doesn't really make sense to me. I don't ever stop and think "Do I need to do this raid for 12 hours." If I did, it would be like "Do I need to play this game period? What do I get out of it? Nothing? Might as well not play and just quit."

Flipping a coin a million times doesn't increase the chances of a heads. It only solidifies the fact that it is 50 50.

Uhm, by my book it does. If I flip a coin once and its tails I'm out of luck. If I choose to flip it another 999,999 times I still have those chances of getting a heads. I think you mean the odds don't increase. Not the chances.

[MrKupo]

Do you just assume people "desperately" want them or do you think they just want to be rewarded for playing the game. Do you think they want to be prepared when new content comes out instead of having to worry about doing a bunch? You say it yourself. There's no content. So what else can you do? Stand around? Log off? If people choose to play the game like that they should. There's nothing wrong with that.

No. By all means, do the content over and over. I'm just saying that you can't blame the developers that you played the same content over and over in a matter of days. Why not take your time. If you don't want to constantly do the runs, then don't.

Is there something wrong with having 0 leve allowances? Is that something you're not suppose to ever reach? Like the real zero is 50 and you need to take a break there. I don't quite understand that. Some people do things differently than you do. I have full 99 leves all the time. Should someone say to me "Hey, Stop doing what you're doing and use some of those leves. There are people out there who have 0 you know and you're wasting them." Sorry, that doesn't really make sense to me. I don't ever stop and think "Do I need to do this raid for 12 hours." If I did, it would be like "Do I need to play this game period? What do I get out of it? Nothing? Might as well not play and just quit."

Sorry if I'm not clarifying this well. I meant that the people who rush through the game will always rush through the game, regardless of how much content there is. It was just an example. I myself am half way through my leves because I've just been spamming leves for the last few days. If I want to stop, I will. Those that don't want to stop will keep going. If the developers add more content, those that didn't stop won't stop and players like me will see something more to do later on.

Uhm, by my book it does. If I flip a coin once and its tails I'm out of luck. If I choose to flip it another 999,999 times I still have those chances of getting a heads. I think you mean the odds don't increase. Not the chances.

Right. Each time you flip the coin, the odds remain the same for each individual flip. If you get 2 tails in a row, it doesn't increase the last 2 flips to be 100% heads. Meaning regardless of how many times you do Garuda, you aren't increasing your odds. So might as well take your time with it.

But I say all this in hopes that people realize that for now, those are just epeen items.

[Nullie]

No. By all means, do the content over and over. I'm just saying that you can't blame the developers that you played the same content over and over in a matter of days. Why not take your time. If you don't want to constantly do the runs, then don't.

I'm sorry, but that response does not answer what you said. You said you had an issue with people who do these. "But my real issue with this whole argument is the fact that people need to get these items in the first place. What do people so desperately need these items for to do 200 speed runs at any given time?" It's not about blaming the devs. You have an issue with people who play the game like that. Why? But your post just now says you don't have a problem with it.

Sorry if I'm not clarifying this well. I meant that the people who rush through the game will always rush through the game, regardless of how much content there is. It was just an example. I myself am half way through my leves because I've just been spamming leves for the last few days. If I want to stop, I will. Those that don't want to stop will keep going. If the developers add more content, those that didn't stop won't stop and players like me will see something more to do later on.

But you're telling people to take their time because they'll tire themselves out. What if taking your time does tire you out? You think its the best route to go. What if I want to rush it for other reasons? What if I can only play so much a day and want to get content done asap before new stuff is out? What if I have other things I need to do? What if I don't have time to take my time? That's the whole point.

Right. Each time you flip the coin, the odds remain the same for each individual flip. If you get 2 tails in a row, it doesn't increase the last 2 flips to be 100% heads. Meaning regardless of how many times you do Garuda, you aren't increasing your odds. So might as well take your time with it.

But I say all this in hopes that people realize that for now, those are just epeen items.

Again, why do you have to take your time? But lets use this method right now. Say I want a Garuda Axe. Lets take the take your time method and the coin flip method. I flip the coin 20 consecutive times and not win. The next time I take my time. 3 wins. Nothing. The next day 3 wins. Nothing. The next day nothing. Lets say on the 21st time I get the axe on both occasions. It would have taken me 7 days to get it while it would have been day 2 the other way. Now how many more attempts do I have to get the axe? None. Now I could take 100 times to get the axe. How long would that take by taking your time before it becomes to the point to where you want to rip your hair out? I just don't understand how taking your time helps with anything. I'm sorry.

[MrKupo]

I'm sorry, but that response does not answer what you said. You said you had an issue with people who do these. "But my real issue with this whole argument is the fact that people need to get these items in the first place. What do people so desperately need these items for to do 200 speed runs at any given time?" It's not about blaming the devs. You have an issue with people who play the game like that. Why? But your post just now says you don't have a problem with it.


But you're telling people to take their time because they'll tire themselves out. What if taking your time does tire you out? You think its the best route to go. What if I want to rush it for other reasons? What if I can only play so much a day and want to get content done asap before new stuff is out? What if I have other things I need to do? What if I don't have time to take my time? That's the whole point.



Again, why do you have to take your time? But lets use this method right now. Say I want a Garuda Axe. Lets take the take your time method and the coin flip method. I flip the coin 20 consecutive times and not win. The next time I take my time. 3 wins. Nothing. The next day 3 wins. Nothing. The next day nothing. Lets say on the 21st time I get the axe on both occasions. It would have taken me 7 days to get it while it would have been day 2 the other way. Now how many more attempts do I have to get the axe? None. Now I could take 100 times to get the axe. How long would that take by taking your time before it becomes to the point to where you want to rip your hair out? I just don't understand how taking your time helps with anything. I'm sorry.

Ok ok. What I'm trying to say is you should play the game how you most enjoy it. I'm saying that it is an issue with the argument, not the game. The argument is that the drops should be skill based, but that is coming from someone who rushed through the content only to get pissed at never getting the gear they wanted. I'm just trying to put in some perspective. Right now, the gear isn't helping you because there's no content after. If you play the game only as long as you enjoy it, the chances are that the odds remain the same and you come out with no gear. The difference is that you only enjoyed the game and didn't drive yourself beyond that. If you enjoy 200 speed runs, then do it. If you can only enjoy 20 speed runs, do 20 and save more runs for another day.
Of course there are those that find enjoyment in having the gear and not the enjoyment in getting it. I have no solution for them except to try and look at it with a different perspective. You don't really have a use for the item yet, so no rush.
I'm not trying to force people to play slowly. That's not my goal. I'm trying to let people know that they can go to bed knowing that if they keep doing it, whether it be a rushed 200 or a slow few runs, the item will eventually come. The best thing you can do is enjoy those runs. It is but a temporary fix until the devs can balance the drop rate issues.

So please don't misunderstand. I am saying Play the game to your enjoyment. Take your time, rush it, but don't make the game a chore. My condolences go out to those of you with "ocd" and just have to get 100% immediately.