Trends in content types and faux difficulty

[Sol_Aureus]

What is all this talk about effort and skill? What a joke. When you have the majority of the playerbase exploiting primals, exploiting safe zones with all blm parties, class stacking for easy wins due to poor boss mechanics, you have no business talking about rewarding effort and skill. On the contrary, the playerbase avoids effort and skill like the plague. Theyd rather faceroll blm parties than die for hours strategizing. Theyd rather abuse poor mechanics than try to beat a fight as intended. What a joke.

The only thing im reading is "give me loot". Its what it always boils down to. You cannot pretend there is a great amount of skill and effort involved. Therr is if you take up the challenge but a majority dont. Frankly that kind of cheesy and abusive gameplay shouldn't be rewarded with easy loot. Jus sayin.

This thread has nothing to do with people class stacking, and it's not a cry for "give me loot." I simply don't want spamable content with abysmally low drop rates, I want lockouts with higher drop rates. I also don't want content types and loot systems that rely mostly on luck as opposed to the effort and skill it took to clear the content. That should be where the difficulty in getting the item is: clearing the content. The difficulty should not be in hoping that the random number generator decides that the 86th time's the charm and drops the item you want.

Stop trying to derail this thread with another subject.

[Lux_Rayna]

This thread has nothing to do with people class stacking, and it's not a cry for "give me loot." I simply don't want spamable content with abysmally low drop rates, I want lockouts with higher drop rates. I also don't want content types and loot systems that rely mostly on luck as opposed to the effort and skill it took to clear the content. That should be where the difficulty in getting the item is: clearing the content. The difficulty should not be in hoping that the random number generator decides that the 86th time's the charm and drops the item you want.

Stop trying to derail this thread with another subject.

Of course its about loot. No one is forcing anyone to spam content, if you want it to remain fresh then limit how much you do it. The only reason anyone spams it is because they want the loot, and the loot does not drop easily. And they will keep spamming it until they get loot, which can take god knows how many runs, and so they necessarily end up tired, bored, and frustrated. As you said yourself in the OP, you want effort and skill to be rewarded, presumably with loot. So yes, loot is at the heart of the discussion. You want loot, for if you didnt want loot this thread would not exist at all. You wouldn't care. Your suggestion for non-spammable content is a necessary compromise for increasing loot drop rates...that way you are not asking something for nothing. The entire thread, as well as the OP, pivots around this whole "crappy drop rate" thing. I daresay it is about "give me loot". To be fair, you tried to present a compromise, but at the end of the day what you're really after is some form of reward, ie loot. In your case, you'd rather run a dungeon every few days and have a high chance of loot, than spam it to death and have a low chance of loot. Course you dont have to spam it to death, making this thread rather irrelevant, but you will precisely because its more about the reward and not the content.

Anyway, I call it as a see it. Its not a thread derailment at all, especially when you were talking about rewarding effort and skill, rather than a luck-based system. If that is not a veiled cry for loot, then nothing is. And since you were addressing effort and skill as a basis for these proposed changes, I had to call you out on that. The argument is flawed precisely because effort and skill is not the name of the game at all. Now if these dungeons were challenging, and took a long time to do successfully, I could definitely agree with you. If content wasnt exploited at every turn, and ppl didnt abuse broken mechanics as common community practice, I could definitely agree with you. As it stands, you really just want an easier time of collecting loot. At least admit it. If you think I can't prove it I definitely can. If this was about spammable content, then change lockout period without significantly altering the drop rates. There. Now you can't spam it and won't get bored. Owait you dont want it that way? Why not? Ah yes, dat loot.

[Sol_Aureus]

Of course its about loot. No one is forcing anyone to spam content, if you want it to remain fresh then limit how much you do it. The only reason anyone spams it is because they want the loot, and the loot does not drop easily. And they will keep spamming it until they get loot, which can take god knows how many runs, and so they necessarily end up tired, bored, and frustrated. As you said yourself in the OP, you want effort and skill to be rewarded, presumably with loot. So yes, loot is at the heart of the discussion. You want loot, for if you didnt want loot this thread would not exist at all. You wouldn't care. Your suggestion for non-spammable content is a necessary compromise for increasing loot drop rates...that way you are not asking something for nothing. The entire thread, as well as the OP, pivots around this whole "crappy drop rate" thing. I daresay it is about "give me loot". To be fair, you tried to present a compromise, but at the end of the day what you're really after is some form of reward, ie loot. In your case, you'd rather run a dungeon every few days and have a high chance of loot, than spam it to death and have a low chance of loot. Course you dont have to spam it to death, making this thread rather irrelevant, but you will precisely because its more about the reward and not the content.

Anyway, I call it as a see it. Its not a thread derailment at all, especially when you were talking about rewarding effort and skill, rather than a luck-based system. If that is not a veiled cry for loot, then nothing is. And since you were addressing effort and skill as a basis for these proposed changes, I had to call you out on that. The argument is flawed precisely because effort and skill is not the name of the game at all. Now if these dungeons were challenging, and took a long time to do successfully, I could definitely agree with you. If content wasnt exploited at every turn, and ppl didnt abuse broken mechanics as common community practice, I could definitely agree with you. As it stands, you really just want an easier time of collecting loot. At least admit it. If you think I can't prove it I definitely can. If this was about spammable content, then change lockout period without significantly altering the drop rates. There. Now you can't spam it and won't get bored. Owait you dont want it that way? Why not? Ah yes, dat loot.

Yes, loot is a part of the discussion, but not my driving force behind posting this. I'm not butthurt because I don't have full sets of everything forever and that loot isn't handed to me. I don't want loot handed to me. I want to work for it. But there's the key: I want to work for it and be rewarded for effort. It's incredibly frustrating when my linkshell has run AV/CC speed runs well over 200 times and we have seen a grand total of 0 bodies drop, yet some random pickup group gets it on their 3rd try. When I see a piece of gear that's hard to get, I want to think to myself "damn, that guy must have put in a lot of time doing vale for that!" as opposed to "random person got lucky with a PUG." Most of the darklight gear doesn't have much of an impact to me because it's mostly based upon luck.

I don't want an easier time of collecting loot. I really, really don't. The last thing I want is for everything to be handed to the players. I want challenge and difficulty, and to be rewarded for overcoming said challenge. I want the rewards to be mostly based upon overcoming that challenge with a bit of luck-based factors thrown in, not for the rewards to be mostly dependent upon mindlessly running a dungeon that has become super stale because you have to run it hundreds of times beating yourself against the random number generator, which there is very little challenge associated with.

And actually, if it's between having the lockout period and the drop rates kept the same or keeping it spamable and keeping the drop rates the same, I'd much rather have the lockout period. At least that way I can enjoy the dungeon and it doesn't become super stale.

But the reason for my wanting there to be an increase in the drop rates is that right now they're so abysmally low that if there WERE a lockout, it's still mostly based upon luck. By increasing the drop rates and adding a lockout timer, it makes it so the dungeons don't get stale quickly and that your group can see viable progress every win. Maybe one piece of darklight every time you win on average. That's not a ridiculously fast rate of getting Darklight, but it's high enough of a drop rate that players don't get discouraged that running the dungeons is pointless because it's all random.

[Lux_Rayna]

Yes, loot is a part of the discussion, but not my driving force behind posting this. I'm not butthurt because I don't have full sets of everything forever and that loot isn't handed to me. I don't want loot handed to me. I want to work for it. But there's the key: I want to work for it and be rewarded for effort. It's incredibly frustrating when my linkshell has run AV/CC speed runs well over 200 times and we have seen a grand total of 0 bodies drop, yet some random pickup group gets it on their 3rd try. When I see a piece of gear that's hard to get, I want to think to myself "damn, that guy must have put in a lot of time doing vale for that!" as opposed to "random person got lucky with a PUG." Most of the darklight gear doesn't have much of an impact to me because it's mostly based upon luck.

I don't want an easier time of collecting loot. I really, really don't. The last thing I want is for everything to be handed to the players. I want challenge and difficulty, and to be rewarded for overcoming said challenge. I want the rewards to be mostly based upon overcoming that challenge with a bit of luck-based factors thrown in, not for the rewards to be mostly dependent upon mindlessly running a dungeon that has become super stale because you have to run it hundreds of times beating yourself against the random number generator, which there is very little challenge associated with.

And actually, if it's between having the lockout period and the drop rates kept the same or keeping it spamable and keeping the drop rates the same, I'd much rather have the lockout period. At least that way I can enjoy the dungeon and it doesn't become super stale.

But the reason for my wanting there to be an increase in the drop rates is that right now they're so abysmally low that if there WERE a lockout, it's still mostly based upon luck. By increasing the drop rates and adding a lockout timer, it makes it so the dungeons don't get stale quickly and that your group can see viable progress every win. Maybe one piece of darklight every time you win on average. That's not a ridiculously fast rate of getting Darklight, but it's high enough of a drop rate that players don't get discouraged that running the dungeons is pointless because it's all random.

So what you want is dungeons that reward skill over luck. IN that case, you're asking for longer and more difficult dungeons in exchange for higher drop rates?

[Sol_Aureus]

So what you want is dungeons that reward skill over luck. IN that case, you're asking for longer and more difficult dungeons in exchange for higher drop rates?

That is something I want, yes.

Basically the point of this thread is to bring to the attention of the devs that I'm not a fan of the spamable short content that has abysmally low drop rates, and that's been the trend of every single bit of endgame content we've gotten so far, and it's got me worried.