Trends in content types and faux difficulty

[fusional]

There's nothing wrong with the content now, it's designed for casuals, it's designed so that even people with little time on their hand can actually enjoy all the content in the game.

which is fine in theory- but in practice when it takes a hardcore player 500-600 runs to get a piece of darklight that a casual player gets in 20... there's a problem. basing everything on luck is just a slap in the face to anyone who puts in more than enough effort, but simply doesn't get lucky.

[Isaaru]

which is fine in theory- but in practice when it takes a hardcore player 500-600 runs to get a piece of darklight that a casual player gets in 20... there's a problem. basing everything on luck is just a slap in the face to anyone who puts in more than enough effort, but simply doesn't get lucky.

Basically the summary of the thread.

EDIT: Also note that the random number generators are not actually random. SE is using a poorly made one and it's not just in dungeons. Going 1/19 on a double meld for something that is a 24% chance success is absurd.

[Sol_Aureus]

Reading over the Karma system it seems easily exploitable and a means to convince competitive players to buy two versions of the game so that they can easily maximize themselves.
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To the OP you say the content doesn't take skill, then you're saying that when any of this content is released it's always 100% success rate, people never fail these dungeons at all? You're complaint seems to be tailored to the fact that people understand the dungeon and thus can get by with little issues which is the point that it becomes spammable. It's honestly no different from what you see in XI's events aside from the fact that they can only be done once a day.

When it comes to being able to spam certain events it comes down to the casual player. The majority of players who complain about content going by to fast or obtaining things to quickly are usually the hardcore players or those who have time on their hands to get through the event and spam it.

For a casual player however perhaps they only have 1 day in which they can do dungeons, so the ability to spam said dungeon for the whole day is a godsend for them if they just don't have the time to do it later in the week. Unlike in XI when Dynamis use to be on a 3 day cooldown people would have to dedicate 2 days to doing dynamis on a set schedule and such.

At the start all content is difficult when you don't understand what's going on but once you learn all the tricks behind it it's easy to get through. Honestly speaking the "speedrun" is only a natural order in which this type of content evolves into to. You've learned everything there is to know about it, now you attempt to run through the dungeon in the quickest manner possible.

People tend to forget that things in this game are designed to allow casual players to maximize the time they have. It's just that the hardcore have the same tools so they can get even greater use out of it. Especially now since anima is pretty much limitless. Anime, leves, dungeon cooldowns.

In a sense it comes down to this, would you rather have content with a 15% drop rate that you can only do every three days, or content in which the drop rate is 5% but you can do it as much as you like? 3 days equates to only being able to enter the dungeon twice a week, and if you fail you have to wait for the cooldown.. wouldn't that be quite discouraging if perhaps you made a mistake at the start or an unfortunate d/c occured.

The system set up in 14 is one which allows players to make mistakes since they do happen at times, but rather then all their progress be lost or waste a chance to obtain loot, they are free to try again right away which is why things become easier much quicker. People have more time to play around in the dungeon and can build up strategies for it quicker. With something like dynamis the reason why it may seem like it took a while to understand is because of it's cooldown, if people can only enter it 3 times a day, then you want to win, you don't always think of trying to understand it, but you try and balance both understanding the strategy behind it and winning. If dynamis was set to 1 day strategies would prolly have been set in place 10 times faster, and if people could spam it then it would've been figured out in 5 days lol.

There's nothing wrong with the content now, it's designed for casuals, it's designed so that even people with little time on their hand can actually enjoy all the content in the game.

I never said the content didn't take skill, I said it does not reward skill. It rewards luck. Which is true.

And they already have separate lockouts for failure and success, I don't see any reason that they couldn't keep that to appease those who make mistakes or when unfortunate stuff like d/cs happen. have it be like a 30 minute to an hour lockout for failure, 2 day lockout for success.

And while I fully admit that I'm a hardcore player, I have a few friends who are casual as well who are more annoyed with this system than I am. With their limited play time on top of the abysmally low drop rates, they have lost all motivation to even try the dungeons. There are plenty of other games out there that cater to the casual market a lot better, creating spamable content with abysmally low drop rates is most definitely not a casual model.

I see no problem with the lockout model for casuals either. If you have limited play time, you dont even have to worry about the lockouts. Get on, do Cutter's, Aurum, Ifrit, Moogle, Garuda, or Hamlet defense. Or a combination of those. That's a lot of stuff to do, and especially if you're a casual and don't have much play time, you'll always have something to do when you sign on.

[Blanka]

There's nothing wrong with the content now, it's designed for casuals, it's designed so that even people with little time on their hand can actually enjoy all the content in the game.

I'd have to disagree with this. I don't get much time to play these days, maybe 8 hours or so a week. I'd rather log in and do one event in the evening than have to spam the same content over and over again. I don't mind being locked out because most of the time I'm not around long enough to be bored. I know this doesn't apply to all players and the people with more time definitely deserve more opportunities for events/rare gear but for me it's a lot more fun to do the event, hope for the best, and if not better luck next time.

[Galliano]

Reading over the Karma system it seems easily exploitable and a means to convince competitive players to buy two versions of the game so that they can easily maximize themselves.
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To the OP you say the content doesn't take skill, then you're saying that when any of this content is released it's always 100% success rate, people never fail these dungeons at all? You're complaint seems to be tailored to the fact that people understand the dungeon and thus can get by with little issues which is the point that it becomes spammable. It's honestly no different from what you see in XI's events aside from the fact that they can only be done once a day.

When it comes to being able to spam certain events it comes down to the casual player. The majority of players who complain about content going by to fast or obtaining things to quickly are usually the hardcore players or those who have time on their hands to get through the event and spam it.

For a casual player however perhaps they only have 1 day in which they can do dungeons, so the ability to spam said dungeon for the whole day is a godsend for them if they just don't have the time to do it later in the week. Unlike in XI when Dynamis use to be on a 3 day cooldown people would have to dedicate 2 days to doing dynamis on a set schedule and such.

At the start all content is difficult when you don't understand what's going on but once you learn all the tricks behind it it's easy to get through. Honestly speaking the "speedrun" is only a natural order in which this type of content evolves into to. You've learned everything there is to know about it, now you attempt to run through the dungeon in the quickest manner possible.

People tend to forget that things in this game are designed to allow casual players to maximize the time they have. It's just that the hardcore have the same tools so they can get even greater use out of it. Especially now since anima is pretty much limitless. Anime, leves, dungeon cooldowns.

In a sense it comes down to this, would you rather have content with a 15% drop rate that you can only do every three days, or content in which the drop rate is 5% but you can do it as much as you like? 3 days equates to only being able to enter the dungeon twice a week, and if you fail you have to wait for the cooldown.. wouldn't that be quite discouraging if perhaps you made a mistake at the start or an unfortunate d/c occured.

The system set up in 14 is one which allows players to make mistakes since they do happen at times, but rather then all their progress be lost or waste a chance to obtain loot, they are free to try again right away which is why things become easier much quicker. People have more time to play around in the dungeon and can build up strategies for it quicker. With something like dynamis the reason why it may seem like it took a while to understand is because of it's cooldown, if people can only enter it 3 times a day, then you want to win, you don't always think of trying to understand it, but you try and balance both understanding the strategy behind it and winning. If dynamis was set to 1 day strategies would prolly have been set in place 10 times faster, and if people could spam it then it would've been figured out in 5 days lol.

There's nothing wrong with the content now, it's designed for casuals, it's designed so that even people with little time on their hand can actually enjoy all the content in the game.

I think the cool-down would only happen on a successful completion of the dungeon, if you d/c at the start you can re enter and try again, likewise if you all wipe while in the dungeon you can re enter and try again. If you get to the end and beat the boss then you have a 2/3 day cool down but with a higher chest drop rate.

Seperate from replying to the quote above, I would also like to add how much I hate speed runs, I think it would be much better to have a chest prereq of lets say "kill every mob in the dungeon" or "you have to kill the end boss in a set time period for the chest to pop". That way people could actually enjoy fighting the mobs in the dungeon instead of having to rush through it every time.

[Myrhn]

Are you even sure that the item for hamlet defense is from the lvl 2 and is not from the lvl 5 that is not out yet?

[Sol_Aureus]

Are you even sure that the item for hamlet defense is from the lvl 2 and is not from the lvl 5 that is not out yet?

yes, it's been a confirmed drop.

[Keres]

I've been feeling this way for a while. The model of having short dungeons with extremely low drop rates that are supposed to be run over and over and over and over and over in quick succession is extremely tedious and not at all interesting. I would also be in favor of moderate lockouts (a couple days for most things) with much higher loot drop rates. Extremely low drop rates are not a substitute for interesting content.

Hopefully this dungeon/loot model is just a result of having a small development staff dedicated to adding content to the existing game, and things will change will 2.0. If not, I fear for the future of the game.

[Zizzefex]

I agree loot/content that gives that loot should be skill based.... not luck based or time based. When you beat something... you should get a guaranteed drop (by drop I mean a token... not a actual item... so you need 10/20/30/whatever tokens for a item of your choice)... and perhaps a random shot at a item. Nothing is worse than beating something hard and getting nothing.

Garuda was a step in the right direction. It was hard, and you are guaranteed a token. This is how every boss (and it's loot) should be. Ifrit/Moogle should give 1 token a kill... guaranteed. Every AV/CC run should give 1 Darklight Ore/token at the end... which you can turn 50 or whatever in for a Darklight piece of your choice. With Garuda I hope it is a sign they are moving away from easy crap with low drop rates to hard awesome with a guaranteed drop.

The only thing wrong with hamlet defense is the reward.... it does not give Company Seals. You should be guaranteed a certain amount of seals depending on your score (and the supply rating).... especially if you are running the hamlet of your faction. They just came out with hamlet defense... after chocobo escort... yet I am running Totorak/Darkhold for seals.... why? I mean really. Hamlet Defense should give Totorak equivalent seals/hour if not better. Militia items should be buyable with seals... and those rare 'seal' things you need for the AF weapons should be a guaranteed drop if you raise the Supply rating to level 5.

I am absolutely dead set against any time lockouts. Implementing time lockouts (1 day/2 day/1 week/whatever) is a absolute no and a artificial way to stall someone's progress... it is no better than luck based lockouts (the way stuff is now).

Sure some people will blow through the game and have everything... that always happens. Most people don't though... and they want to see progress when they log in for a hour or 2 or 5.

Edit: I guess what I'm saying is I see Garuda is a big big step forward.... and Hamlet defense as a small step back (which can be fixed if they just gave Company Seals as a reward).

[Kazimir]

I agree that the spammable content is a horrible MMO design. The content gets very boring way too quickly, which is why most (more successful MMO's) put timers on how often you can enter a dungeon. The drop rates don't have to be greatly improved, just improved enough to match the timers.

Problem is there's always going to be people complaining that they have to wait before doing the dungeon again. People want their gear asap but when everyone in the game gets it within the first few weeks they then start complaining about it.

For the end-game content they should really follow the model of some dungeons having 24-hour timers and the biggest raids with the best gear having a week long reset timer. Of course they need more content to make up for it, but even a lack of content isn't a reason for following a very bad model of spamming.