P1N Warrior solo kill

[ssunny2008]

dps : they're squishy and are dependant of healing and mitigation from healers and tank but they have the highest damage in game and help a lot to rpgress and clear a fight.
healers : can heal and even tank auto attack even in savage (true story) but can not take tank buster / can not do enough damage to clear a fight by themselves..
tank : can pretty much do a good dps, heal themselves and sometimes party but don't have the highest damage in game and are dependant of healers and dps on some fights with tight dps / heal check or even mechanics which require to have a specific role inside.

Funny thing:

DPS are dependant on everything.
Healers are dependant on everything.
Tanks are only dependant on DPS checks, which are only a thing in savage content. Heal-checks are a joke especially for WAR, stack mechanics can be solo´d. Instakill mechanics because "You´ve the wrong role" actually show that SE just tries to force us to play nothing but a standard-comp instead of fixing their classes. Not to mention that 95% of all content can be solod by tanks, meanwhile DPS sucks hard for their 33% more damage and healers can only do that out of hardhitting tankbusters with 100 times more efford and time investment.

[Alzinor]

I don´t know, have you read? I said, if there is no DPS check. It´s one of the things to force ppl to play standard comps. But if there is none, tanks are the easy choice.
Even in savage or overall world first prog, 8 tanks are superior. First of all you might see more mechanics since ppl actually survive. And if there is no DPS check, then you just gonna faceroll 30 minutes through a fight.
A perfect example would be P1s. If someone fucks up the gems, it´s mostly a wipe. But if you´ve 8 tanks, it doesn´t matter if someone fcks them up. So all what holds you back is that DPS check. So far it might be a thing that the prog would be even faster if there wouldn´t be such DPC checks and all because tanks are nothing but broken and highly forgivable.

Y but do you play the game ?
There is always a dps check on any endgame fight ( i mean relevant savage or ultimate fight) so why arguing " y but what if the dps check is no longer a thing" since it won't happen ?

that's why your 8 tank party will never be a thing in relevant time.

Funny thing:

DPS are dependant on everything.
Healers are dependant on everything.
Tanks are only dependant on DPS checks, which are only a thing in savage content. Heal-checks are a joke, stack mechanics can be solo´d. Instakill mechanics because "You´ve the wrong role"
actually show that SE just tries to force us to play nothing but a standard-comp instead of fixing their classes.

Who care about dungeons or story mode raid, they're just a thing for story, if you were looking about difficulties inside, you play the wrong content.

Pretty sure with a bit of adjust you can do a run 8 dps or 8 healer on normal raid and bring 2 rdm or smn to rez people after each TB since auto attack are a joke in NM.

[ssunny2008]

Y but do you play the game ?
There is always a dps check on any endgame fight ( i mean relevant savage or ultimate fight) so why arguing " y but what if the dps check is no longer a thing" since it won't happen ?

that's why your 8 tank party will never be a thing in relevant time.

Because it´s relevant in kind of class-balancing?

"Hey guys, we know tanks are non-stop broken. But hey... we´ve DPS checks atleast in savage. So you need those 4 DPS. And those 4 DPS need 2 healer which take care about them. So all is fine! ISN`T IT??? "

I´m a big fan of the holy trinity, but the class balancing and relevance here is a joke. Tanks are way superior, warrior is a one-man-army, meanwhile healer are green DPS which have to babysit themselves and DPS at any raidwide with off globals.

Who care about dungeons or story mode raid, they're just a thing for story, if you were looking about difficulties inside, you play the wrong content.

It´s part of the game as savage and other stuff is. Probably 90% of the whole playerbase will never meet anything else. And for endgame-players it´s even a big part since you run it pointlessly down for some tomes. All have to be kept in mind.

[Alzinor]

Because it´s relevant in kind of class-balancing?

"Hey guys, we know tanks are non-stop broken. But hey... we´ve DPS checks atleast in savage. So you need those 4 DPS. And those 4 DPS need 2 healer which take care about them. So all is fine! ISN`T IT??? "

I´m a big fan of the holy trinity, but the class balancing and relevance here is a joke. Tanks are way superior meanwhile healer are green DPS which have to babysit themselves and DPS at any raidwide with off globals.

Soooo admitting you are right, give me your opinion, tell me how you would balance tank role then ? (it is a serious question, no troll)

It´s part of the game as savage and other stuff is. Probably 90% of the whole playerbase will never meet anything else. And for endgame-players it´s even a big part since you run it pointlessly down for some tomes. All have to be kept in mind.

Yes but their main goal is to allow people with different scale of skill to take down content, they're not ingame to give you challenge, it is a casual content made for the casual playerbase which is probably 80% of the playerbase ingame.
That's why, you often run dungeons or nm raid and they seems to be over easy and not ask you to use all of your tank / heal / dps tools because it is the goal they were designed for.

[Undeadfire]

There is always a dps check on any endgame fight ( i mean relevant savage or ultimate fight) so why arguing " y but what if the dps check is no longer a thing" since it won't happen ?

Hate to break it for ya, but DPS checks have only been threats in final Savage fights for 1st/2nd week clears. Ultimates they really don't, solid strategies make them stop existing. You can die 5-7x on UWU/UCOB and still clear the fights, TEA can get away with a couple deaths as long they don't die at the wrong time, BJ/CC/Pepsiman/Alex wipe groups without everyones participation. Every group gets told if you're still struggling to beat DPS check, people are not pulling their weight, or don't care enough to try.

[Alzinor]

Hate to break it for ya, but DPS checks have only been threats in final Savage fights for 1st/2nd week clears. Ultimates they really don't, solid strategies make them stop existing. You can die 5-7x on UWU/UCOB and still clear the fights, TEA can get away with a couple deaths as long they don't die at the wrong time, BJ/CC/Pepsiman/Alex wipe groups without everyones participation. Every group gets told if you're still struggling to beat DPS check, people are not pulling their weight, or don't care enough to try.

That's why i said " relevant savage or ultimate fight".

ucob have no longer dps check with the synch scale and it is even worse since endwalker scalling ( you can skip nael divebomb with a good group, dunno if it was possible before)

Ultima is just an extreme but 14 min long.

and TEA is only mechanics, you can die plenty of times on it, as long as everyone is up on perfect and meet perfect dps check, you're good (even if like you said, you can wipe if you die at the wrong moment)

Every group gets told if you're still struggling to beat DPS check, people are not pulling their weight, or don't care enough to try.

And i totally agree on it, just said you couldn't go 8 tank week 1 and even week 3, if your dps as tank is average, and if you have 7 tank like you in your team, i'm not even sure you could meet the dps check for some fights (p2s or p3s as a perfect example)

[Undeadfire]

( you can skip nael divebomb with a good group, dunno if it was possible before)

Was in SHBs, but you needed a speed setup.

[Semirhage]

It's the fact that almost every fight can be done without needing to cast a single GCD, or done without needing to use the full extent of their kit. Which is strictly why I put the issue on the fight designs.

Yay, more outgoing damage. I can't wait to run out of oGCDs so I can finally, finally pull out the pulsepounding excitement that is

Regen. Cure 2. Cure 2. Cure 2. Cure 2. Cure 2. Cure 2.

Hmm there's something (Dia) oddly familiar (Glare) about the pattern (Glare) here but I (Glare) can't put my finger on it.

I haven't the foggiest idea why anyone would consider being forced into the equality terribly designed noninteractive GCD healing spells a "fix" to healer engagement. A boring spell being on the GCD doesn't magically render it well-designed. Maybe other former healer mains disagree, but I'm not Yoshi's target audience. My healing jollies don't get me all giddy just because ooooo, I heard the Cure 2 noise, cast it again! And again! And again!

[Shurrikhan]

I haven't the foggiest idea why anyone would consider being forced into the equality terribly designed noninteractive GCD healing spells a "fix" to healer engagement. A boring spell being on the GCD doesn't magically render it well-designed. Maybe other former healer mains disagree, but I'm not Yoshi's target audience. My healing jollies don't get me all giddy just because ooooo, I heard the Cure 2 noise, cast it again! And again! And again!

While I don't agree with Ixon's position here...

I don't think anyone has claimed that we get our "healing jollies" over the AFX or VFX of healing spells; rather, having times in which someone absolutely will die if you do not seriously pump for a moment can be exciting (though it obviously involves questions of accessibility on which the devs had clearly sided in just one direction).

If the difference of being half-awake for a Healer is that "Oh no! I left a oGCD on CD too long and had to use a GCD heal and thus lost 310 potency in the fight!" instead of "Well, shit, they're dead because of me...," it gives little weight to the player's impact so long as they're a healer.

Moreover, that the GCD kit is terribly designed now does not mean that it must always remain so. The barriers to its improvement are not unique; they're the same as for any other part of healer play: that the devs actually put the necessary time into the Healer role. We certainly have examples from other MMOs more interesting GCD healing (and of healing kits in general).

[J-Reyno]

I assume this goalpost is just as easily wheeled back to "it's not a problem unless a tank easily solos Ultimate"

We're not going to worry about the next goalpost until you've reached the first one.