P1N Warrior solo kill

[KariTheFox]

I understand that healer players are frustrated, but I promise you that if you nerf tank damage into the ground and remove the sustain that tanks have, healers will not be any more fun to play.

All that will happen is that people will start demanding that tanks have better gear to do content.

[Deceptus]

OK, so we remove all shields/health regen/damage mitigation from dps and strip all healers of any and all offensive abilities while we are at it?

Or are we just culling the tanks here?

Healers WANT something to heal, but the game doesn't have that right now.

But speaking of culing, Healers were already culled. This doesn't even show the multiple things that WHM and AST lost as well.

[Semirhage]

I get what you are saying, but isn't that kind of the point of a tank though?

The only thing that I would possibly entertain is a flat reduction to all tank dps. I don't see anything wrong with the defensive/healing abilities, this was one of the easy fights they did this on. Lets not pretend that there are droves of tanks running EW and all its content completely solo.

Start cutting tank dps AND their abilities and watch the que times become 30+ minutes in regular duties. Because who would want to play them? I wouldn't play them if they were extremely weak dps just wearing slightly stronger armour who's sole purpose is to hold aggro and sit there being a punching bag while everybody else has fun.

Perhaps another angle on this is addressing the naked double standard between the tank and healer roles.

Tank:
> Oh they'd better have really high defense because that's what tanks are
> Oh they'd better have mitigation and threat generation because that's what tanks do
> Better give them really good sustain because we don't want to rely on healers that may suck
> And let's also give them really good damage because it feels silly to not have decent output when you're chopping at something with a sword or axe

Healer:
> Better give them healing spells because that's what healers are
> Defense? POPPYCOCK! That's what tanks are for! Squishy caster armor for you! You'll get one shot like the rest of the non-tanks and like it.
> Mitigation? Okay you get a little but don't you dare do as much as tanks, that's breaking the trinity
> Decent damage? PREPOSTEROUS! You're the giggling one in the white dress, you can't attack things!

Basically, tanks openly defy the trinity? Sounds fun, let's go! Healers defy the trinity? HEALERS should HEAL ONLY, back in the cage Sylphie.

Now, it's not like tank damage rotations are all that gripping or give the element of choice, but they're at least a half step above Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil ZZZZZZZZZZ. But remember, healers "can't handle" more than that, because healers invalidating tanks is grounds for immediate emergency patching, while tanks flaunting the trinity is just a Tuesday.

[Ixon]

Snip.

Well, to be fair, we as a community kinda fell out of the core of the "Trinity" back in Alexander, whereas before that tank and healer dps was not as largely of an idea, and have just never looked back. Some of the trinity is still there, not saying it's perfect, but it's there.

Tanks naturally have higher HP's and Defense from being a tank and being the main focus of the enemy, so it wouldn't make sense for a healer to be as "tanky" like a tank, or any other role for that matter. "Really good sustain" outside of WAR is highly fight dependent, I can tell you not every fight is doable without a healer. It depends on what your threshold of "good damage" is, because the best tank is still 1k behind the worst DPS. If you mean that they just do more damage than healers, I see no reason why healer damage could not be brought up to tank damage, but that's for SE to decide(Though the "Clemency is better than a lost Glare for DPS" had it's own issues lol). If you exclude the solely self mitigation tanks have, tanks and healers are pretty neck and neck when it comes to mitigation. In fact, Sage can output more party wide mitigation than any of the tank can with Kerachole and Holos. Just like no tank competes with a Spreadlo or how busted Macrocosmos can be like in P3S.

I'm not saying things are perfect, I just don't think they are leaps and bounds apart, and only need a few minor adjustments here and there for things to fit better. I'd rather them make encounters that challenge a healers kit before I would have them swinging the nerf bat to all the non-healer sustain just so healers can GCD heal more.

[Atreides]

That is the issue with people demanding easy content. they want their story mode that can be cleared with the plebiest of plebs and they got it. Now they see Tanks solo said pleb content and think it's the end of the world. Imo they might aswell make Normal Trusts nowdays because they are a joke and become easier every expansion. This is not a Tank design issue, it's the encounter that is just a joke on normal. Solo'ing it it still a feat, and shouldn't be taken as given, I would go crazy if I had to endure a 1 hour battle, they've done it solely for the challenge and not because it's remotely efficient.

Most people who cry here won't even attempt the challenge themselves if they could, they just hate the possibility that others can do it.

[Xiaoki]

Instead of whining about WAR its obvious that DRK needs sustainability buff to not stand out.

Unfortunately healers will never get what they need (which is more involved dps rotation when healing is not needed) because Square Enix has some weird design philosophy for them where their kits focus on giving them healing tools that are not needed in high level content and most of their gameplay loop is pressing one dps GCD over and over.

Healers don't need complicated DPS rotations, they need a reason to use their healing tools in high level content.

The content needs to be damaging enough and threatening enough that tanks will not be able to sustain themselves on their own.

That will make it so healers are not just pressing one damage button the entire time.

[deadman1204]

Healers don't need complicated DPS rotations, they need a reason to use their healing tools in high level content.

The content needs to be damaging enough and threatening enough that tanks will not be able to sustain themselves on their own.

That will make it so healers are not just pressing one damage button the entire time.

Lets be honest, Healers need a more complicated dps rotation to stay awake

[YukikoKurosawa]

Can someone please explain to me why a tank should be able to constantly self-heal itself, either through direct heal abilities, hots, or heal via damage? Do we not have the healer role for a reason?

[ASkellington]

Can someone please explain to me why a tank should be able to constantly self-heal itself, either through direct heal abilities, hots, or heal via damage? Do we not have the healer role for a reason?

Because there's nothing wrong with it? That's like saying DNC shouldn't have Curing Waltz because healers exist.

The problem isn't tanks or even dps having sustain. The problem is that the game is clearly not designed around them having it while also having a "dedicated healing role".

[AziraSyuren]

Can someone please explain to me why a tank should be able to constantly self-heal itself, either through direct heal abilities, hots, or heal via damage? Do we not have the healer role for a reason?

Because it's fun and makes them stand out? The whole design of the tank role has been to make things as easy on other party members as possible, be it through mitigating damage, healing people (or themselves), positioning the boss and mob packs, etc etc. It's why DRK mains are so salty now despite them having the highest DPS. They've pretty much been the poster child of "all take and no give" since Stormblood (as much as people like to pretend that things were better back then). Tanks shouldn't be made less fun just because the healer role is shit for all but the hardest of content.