P1N Warrior solo kill

[Risvertasashi]

https://youtu.be/fFcZCEny4x4

I doubt anyone will be doing savage with less than 8 people any time sooner... but I wonder how long it'll be before someone does it healerless?

[Deceptus]

What kills me is that in the reddit thread people are legitimately defending it.

I'm waiting for the extreme casuals calling it overpowered,which is werid because they shouldn't be talking about balances.

lol he called NM raids content.

It's inconsequential. There's nothing game breaking or really advantageous about being able to solo a normal raid.

I mean it's normal. It's soloing worthless content that doesn't matter.

People still get upset when you remind them healers are redundant in normal content.

Have to go REALLY far down to find some common sense.

ngl even though it's pointlessly slow and has no functional purpose other than showing off, it still bothers me that stuff like this is possible. Not just because it shows how broken tanks are but because it shows how ridiculously easy normal mode content has become and the flaws in SE's encounter design.

It's just plain silly when a boss does basically no damage because it spends 99% of its time casting mechanics. We're already at the point where healers are virtually a redundant role in dungeons and the only reason you still see them there is because the duty finder forces it.

I know people will say "it's normal who cares". I care. The majority of content in the game is normal mode, it should be fun. Trivial content isn't fun. I dread doing roulettes in this game because of how high the chance is that I'll get put in some duty that used to be fun but has since been rendered meaninglessly easy. At that point I have to ask myself if I'm playing the game to enjoy myself or just to farm currency.

It's a huge problem with healer design in general.

Because what do healers do when they're not needed to heal?

They push one button over and over and over again while putting out really shitty DPS numbers.

They are the only class in the game where they are made to feel bad for using their primary toolset- and the alternate play pattern is extremely dull.

Pretty much. The problem on display in this clear isn't "WAR healing OP," it's "normal content is literally braindead."

This. This is a glaringly obvious game design flaw.

Not only is this cheapening the other tank jobs, it cheapens healing jobs. Not to mention at face value alone this makes the game look imbalanced and goes against the whole social aspect of the game.

We (healers) will never be redundant as long as DPS have lower IQ than the boss mechanics.

[eagledorf]

It's amazing how many people will try to defend this. 8-person contents should not be possible with only one person at the level and roughly the ilevel it was created for. (Factoring in the loss of the Full Party bonus, the stats should be pretty close to base 570-580).

There is a serious problem if that's the case, whether it's WAR being badly overpowered, the encounter being badly undertuned, or (most likely) both.

Some people will say it's OK because it's easy mode, but even if most players aren't intense enough to do this for healers shouldn't be dead weight in any content. Players will know if they're fundamental unnecessary even if a party messes up enough that they're actually needed.

[Risvertasashi]

I agree with you both completely. But, with how nerf averse SE is, I can't see SE making significant changes to it before 7.0. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it's hard to see it given SE's history. Healer DPS is pretty low this expac too, so the party benefits even less from having an unnecessary green slot.

[Liam_Harper]

What I don't get is why they gave WAR (and other tanks) great tools for single target mitigation, healers got even more tools too, like Aquaveil, Exaltation, 2 charges on Benison, ect. All this is fine. I'm not a fan of bland wet noodle toolkits that feel weak.

....but then bosses this expansion deal almost the same damage, or less.

Other games have made it work. WoW Death Knights used to be notorious for ridiculous boss solos and high tank heal, yet healers were constantly busy there. The issue in FF14 is bosses just don't do damage relative to the tools we have.

[ForteNightshade]

What I don't get is why they gave WAR (and other tanks) great tools for single target mitigation, healers got even more tools too, like Aquaveil, Exaltation, 2 charges on Benison, ect. All this is fine. I'm not a fan of bland wet noodle toolkits that feel weak.

....but then bosses this expansion deal almost the same damage, or less.

Other games have made it work. WoW Death Knights used to be notorious for ridiculous boss solos and high tank heal, yet healers were constantly busy there. The issue in FF14 is bosses just don't do damage relative to the tools we have.

Like I said elsewhere. SE seems intent on making content below EX participation award level. They've doubled down on accessible to the absolute extreme end of the spectrum. Unfortunately, with the massive upswing in player numbers. I doubt they seen any incentive to actually change their design philosophy. At this point though, we're only bringing two tank and two healers because DF literally forces us to. We certainly don't need them.

What irks me is people keep screaming that Warrior needs to be nerfed when that won't achieve anything. Okay, 6.08, they nerf Bloodwhetting into the ground. What changes? P1N remains an embarrassingly easy fight that doesn't require healers to do anything but spam their nuke. Warrior's just can't solo it anymore.

[Risvertasashi]

Like I said elsewhere. SE seems intent on making content below EX participation award level. They've doubled down on accessible to the absolute extreme end of the spectrum. Unfortunately, with the massive upswing in player numbers. I doubt they seen any incentive to actually change their design philosophy. At this point though, we're only bringing two tank and two healers because DF literally forces us to. We certainly don't need them.

What irks me is people keep screaming that Warrior needs to be nerfed when that won't achieve anything. Okay, 6.08, they nerf Bloodwhetting into the ground. What changes? P1N remains an embarrassingly easy fight that doesn't require healers to do anything but spam their nuke. Warrior's just can't solo it anymore.

Some points to note.

1. Although the video really underscores the extreme end of the spectrum, even EX content doesn't need healers. There were videos out of healerless clears before the current tier's high end gear was even releases. This is possible in no small part due to tanks just not needing healers. (The more impressive part of the no-healer clears is keeping DPS alive, but even that's not that high of a bar).

2. It's not just warrior. Single target, relative to other tanks, warriors aren't that powerful. Their healing is essentially on par with the others. It gets really absurd on trash packs, true, but the bigger problem is being able to do this on bosses and it's not just warrior that can do it.

3. It's not good gameplay design when, even in a dungeon, if the party wipes but the tank can continue to solo for 15 minutes to a kill. Everyone else is just sitting out and getting bored. Yes, this was possible to some extent before, but it's never been as common as now. Now add this to something like where the party, except for tanks, dies at say 30% in p2n/p3n/p4n. It's less extreme than a tank solo kill, but being able to duo through everything, only needing the other tank for stacks and just soloing every tankbuster, is still too much power in one role, and it's still making 6 people sit there and be bored for 10~15 minutes or even more.

Last I checked, no one was ticking a box that queues them up to be a spectator.

[RinaShinomiya]

It really feels like healers are getting less and less appreciated by the community. I remember when i was on Aether during SHB i'd very frequently get 3 commends in dungeon, 5~6 in normal Raids, maybe even 8. One time i got 8 commends in a alliance raid because i basically carried mine and other parties, while explaining mechanics to people. This is the main reason i manage to fulfill combat mentor requirements. Ever since i moved to Lich Commends became much rarer. I could literally save a run with healer LB3 and get no commends for it. Maybe it has to do with cultural differences between US and EU but between my last time on Aether and Lich was a 1 year break so it may have to do with that too. Esp. reading those comments Deceptus compiled. It really worsens the healer experience because nobody really recognizes if we're performing well or not because no one seems to care.

[ForteNightshade]

Snip

All of these issues can be readily solved with two simple additions:

1. Significantly higher outgoing damage so tanks simply can't solo content like this, specifically Normal modes. It's absurd that even in a damage I can take a split stack solo and not even lose half my HP with only Reprisal running. That should outright kill me if not come incredibly close with big CDs running. The fact it doesn't is a far bigger issue than tank self-healing. They shouldn't be in a position to heal that much to begin with.

2. Put enrages back in normal modes. There's absolutely no reason P1N should last an hour, or that any fight can be a 25+ minute struggle with 40 raises being thrown out. With a hard enrage, you completely nullify tanks even attempting something like this without neutering their gameplay. Once again, the solution shouldn't be to make tanks glorified DPS who occasionally press Vengeance if even that. It should be to fix the issue so both tanks and healers actually have a purpose beyond being weaker damage dealers.

[Deceptus]

All of these issues can be readily solved with two simple additions:

1. Significantly higher outgoing damage so tanks simply can't solo content like this, specifically Normal modes. It's absurd that even in a damage I can take a split stack solo and not even lose half my HP with only Reprisal running. That should outright kill me if not come incredibly close with big CDs running. The fact it doesn't is a far bigger issue than tank self-healing. They shouldn't be in a position to heal that much to begin with.

2. Put enrages back in normal modes. There's absolutely no reason P1N should last an hour, or that any fight can be a 25+ minute struggle with 40 raises being thrown out. With a hard enrage, you completely nullify tanks even attempting something like this without neutering their gameplay. Once again, the solution shouldn't be to make tanks glorified DPS who occasionally press Vengeance if even that. It should be to fix the issue so both tanks and healers actually have a purpose beyond being weaker damage dealers.

1) Add more tank swap mechanics to normal raids. The reason this (solo killing) can be done, outside of adding enrages, is because tank damage is too low.

Putting a debuff on a tank that can only be negated via a tank swap stops that sh!t ricky tick. Hell, in most content that 2nd tank is a Blue DPS, only there to keep enmity in case the MT dies.

2) Add Doom to more normal raids that needs to be cleansed. This also requires healers to be present (or bards )

Basically there are multiple ways to mitigate this kind of gameplay and the FFXIV Devs have blatantly refused to do any of them and have negated the entire healing role because of it.